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Females more likely to cheat than males?
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Not sure if this has been discussed already, but in light of the recent cheating "scandals" (ostarine+female pros, T-taking IM TX AG champion, some serial course cutters back from 2015, plus that lady that cut the half marathon course (from marathon investigator)) and the list goes on, does it seem like recently there have been more FEMALE cheaters than Male?

I am aware of the EPIC male cheater stories as well and honestly, I would expect the cheating to be more prevalent among the male athletes because one could assume that they want to "prove" their masculinity or whatever. But why are all these females cheating? Is this because of the culture that "women can have it all" (career, family and kick-ass performance in a HOBBY?).

Is it societal pressure? Do women feel they need to cheat in AMATEUR sports to gain what, approval from men and society? I think it is a different story at the pro level, where we are talking about sponsors, etc.
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [RunnerChik] [ In reply to ]
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Its because men are smarter and don't get caught (pink)

2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [RunnerChik] [ In reply to ]
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I think males athletes cheat more. However, in my observation there is a certain type of female that may cheat. The one who thrives on, craves attention.
And she is willing to take the chance at being found out and losing everything to get the adulation she craves.
It seems like males are more prone to cheat for financial gain. Just my observation.
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [RunnerChik] [ In reply to ]
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Confirmation bias much?

"the list goes on" is not considered as a sound statistical evidence. Making conclusions from this fallacious data is just ridiculous.

Dear OP, if this subject is of so much interest to you, than please do your homework and find some good hard data before making conclusions. If you don't have time / mood / motivation to look for the said data, you don't get to make random conclusions based on ... well, based on nothing, really.
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [kgro] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
If you don't have time / mood / motivation to look for the said data, you don't get to make random conclusions based on ... well, based on nothing, really.

Umm, you do realize where you are, right? The Internet.
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [RunnerChik] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe men are too busy cheating at things with higher stakes like robbing banks, insider trading, cooking financial books etc etc etc At least the numbers in jails would suggest that men are doing more global cheating on all fronts than women!
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [RunnerChik] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think there's any reason to suspect women are either more or less likely to cheat based on a few isolated cases. You'd need a consistent means to detect cheating, a big enough cheating sample group and some actual statistics to soundly make an assertion like that. As it is this is just speculation and probably best avoided.
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [RunnerChik] [ In reply to ]
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History has shown us that when it comes to being a 'bad person' statistically men seem to win hands down.

29 years and counting
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
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Jorgan wrote:
History has shown us that when it comes to being a 'bad person' statistically men seem to win hands down.
In general, or are we talking dictators, warlords, serial killers, that sort of thing?
"Bad person" covers a multitude of possible meanings. Until relatively recently women have had fewer opportunities to inflict mass suffering on others. Where they have had power, I suspect they've abused it as often as men. e.g. treatment of children, slaves, subordinates.
But day to day, when it comes to small scale unpleasantness, opportunism, dishonesty, lack of integrity etc, my personal experience hasn't shown me a clear winner. In both my work and personal life I think I've known similar proportions of both sexes who I've considered dishonest, manipulative, bullying, or opportunistic.
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [RunnerChik] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone here ever played (really) competitive softball.........or golf?....lol

If you think men won't cheat (in droves) for NOTHING other than self-aggrandizing reasons.......you're sadly mistaken.
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [RunnerChik] [ In reply to ]
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Girls are icky, so of course they cheat more.
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [RunnerChik] [ In reply to ]
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RunnerChik wrote:
Not sure if this has been discussed already, but in light of the recent cheating "scandals" (ostarine+female pros, T-taking IM TX AG champion, some serial course cutters back from 2015, plus that lady that cut the half marathon course (from marathon investigator)) and the list goes on, does it seem like recently there have been more FEMALE cheaters than Male?

I am aware of the EPIC male cheater stories as well and honestly, I would expect the cheating to be more prevalent among the male athletes because one could assume that they want to "prove" their masculinity or whatever. But why are all these females cheating? Is this because of the culture that "women can have it all" (career, family and kick-ass performance in a HOBBY?).

Is it societal pressure? Do women feel they need to cheat in AMATEUR sports to gain what, approval from men and society? I think it is a different story at the pro level, where we are talking about sponsors, etc.

Probably just coincidental at this point. It would want to see a well designed study using a large sample of the population before I would opine anything. In the meantime, voicing a viewpoint on this issue is fraught with risk Danger Will Robinson!
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
It would want to see a well designed study using a large sample of the population before I would opine anything.

Derek at Marathon Investigation would have some good data, at least for runners.

http://www.marathoninvestigation.com/
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [Pat0] [ In reply to ]
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Pat0 wrote:
I think males athletes cheat more. However, in my observation there is a certain type of female that may cheat. The one who thrives on, craves attention.
And she is willing to take the chance at being found out and losing everything to get the adulation she craves.
It seems like males are more prone to cheat for financial gain. Just my observation.
I tend to agree with this.

My WAG stereotypes:
Cheating (or obliviousness) with drugs is hard to tell.
Drafting is done on purpose by men and obliviously by women.
Course cutting is done to 'get it over with' by men and 'to win' by women.

I can't imagine a man winning but being caught course-cutting not completely implode with shame.
Several women have won, been caught course-cutting and fiercely denied it.

My theory is that these win-at-ridicule women crave the attention and they operate in a 'bubble': train alone or in a gym, race alone, have no connection with other top women. Plus the field is not that deep.

The FOP men have an extreme focus on the competition, any 'miraculous' performance would stick out more and be scrutinized and confronted.
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar wrote:
HuffNPuff wrote:
It would want to see a well designed study using a large sample of the population before I would opine anything.


Derek at Marathon Investigation would have some good data, at least for runners.

http://www.marathoninvestigation.com/


Absolutely. If he would focus on several years of Boston qualifier cheaters, ignore the rest, it would be interesting to see the raw numbers as well as the percentage those numbers represented of the total male/female BQ population for the same year. But again, the downside risk of having his intentions maligned is probably way too high!!



Last edited by: HuffNPuff: Feb 27, 17 7:08
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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His stats might be interesting, but not necessarily statistically meaningful. There are all kinds of biases that can be introduced by his methodologies, so just because he catches proportionately one gender more than the other wouldn't prove much. (E.g., it would be a lot easier catching a man running with a woman's number than a man running with another man's number -- so for a woman doing this just one picture would be pretty clear, but with men you have to look at pictures from different races before you start getting a picture -- of course a fast woman can run wearing the bib for a slower woman, but my impression is that this is not the norm.)

HuffNPuff wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
HuffNPuff wrote:
It would want to see a well designed study using a large sample of the population before I would opine anything.


Derek at Marathon Investigation would have some good data, at least for runners.

http://www.marathoninvestigation.com/


Absolutely. If he would focus on several years of Boston qualifier cheaters, ignore the rest, it would be interesting to see the raw numbers as well as the percentage those numbers represented of the total male/female BQ population for the same year. But again, the downside risk of having his intentions maligned is probably way too high!!


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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [RunnerChik] [ In reply to ]
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Haha. Maybe because all the male cheaters haven't been outed yet? Had a recent conversation with a friend on whether MarathonInvestigation has a gender bias.

I am a data nerd, so this got me to dig up some data and maybe provides some food for thought.

1) Since 1995, Running has grown a lot as a sport and driven by growth of female runners. In 1995, most runners were male. In 2015, most runners were female (57% of all running event finishers). Source

2) Looking at shorter than Marathon distance runners, there's a higher percentage of females (61%) and they are also younger (mean age 36 vs Men's 39). Source . Median is probably a better indicator year, but alas unavailable.

3) Looking at Marathon distance runners, the statistics flips, where there are more male runners (57%). Source

4) In light of how two "high profile" cheaters on Marathon Investigation being bloggers. Did a quick look on best running blogs . My unscientific tally shows that 70% of these blogs are run by female runners vs. male runner. one might hypothesize that these blogs are a strong reason for the growth in female runners, which tend to attract younger audiences (explaining the age gap above), and not necessary core runners.

5) My personal experience with younger non-core runners would say they are more likely to boast, and thus publicly set targets that are hard to achieve. Unscientific data points, based on my personal experience of college grads I interviewed, who happen to say they run in their resume. I have met a few people who said they'd be running the boston marathon without knowing you have to qualify, and a few people who don't know that a 5k race that takes place around a marathon event is technically not a marathon.

If anyone has access to RunningUSA's women running survey result, they can probably confirm my hypothesis that women running grew fast recently and as a result has more non-core runners (core = runners who tend to train year round), who are younger, who have been running for a shorter amount of years than their male counterparts. As a result, since there are simply more female runners and more female non-core runners, thus more people who struggle with distance and tend to cut courses (easier to catch).

On the flip side, I'd venture and guess that there are more male dopers, who are more sophisticated, and harder to catch. There are likely more core male runners.
Last edited by: bloodyshogun: Feb 27, 17 9:48
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [bloodyshogun] [ In reply to ]
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The biggest narcissists I know don't believe in external reality enough to be bothered cheating in amateur sports.

It is much easier to lie.
And when lies don't work....change the subject.
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [RunnerChik] [ In reply to ]
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I goes like this:

* Don't cheat

** If you MUST cheat, don't get caught

*** If you MUST cheat, and you get caught, admit to it

**** If you must cheat, and you get caught, and you won't admit it ... just shut the fuck up about it

http://www.phillymag.com/...-marathon-aftermath/

Did I miss anything?

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [bloodyshogun] [ In reply to ]
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I race a lot in local triathlons in France and in my experience, the leading women there have a problem with drafting. For sure they have to deal with a larger density of athletes, but 9 times out of 10, they practice blatant drafting. That's not to say they are more evil than men. I guess the lack of referees at the top of the women leaderboard plays a major role.
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [RunnerChik] [ In reply to ]
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Keep in mind, this is from the NYT, so it's probably #fakeresearch

https://www.nytimes.com/...inst-themselves.html

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Females more likely to cheat than males? [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
History has shown us that when it comes to being a 'bad person' statistically men seem to win hands down.

In general, or are we talking dictators, warlords, serial killers, that sort of thing?
"Bad person" covers a multitude of possible meanings. Until relatively recently women have had fewer opportunities to inflict mass suffering on others. Where they have had power, I suspect they've abused it as often as men. e.g. treatment of children, slaves, subordinates.
But day to day, when it comes to small scale unpleasantness, opportunism, dishonesty, lack of integrity etc, my personal experience hasn't shown me a clear winner. In both my work and personal life I think I've known similar proportions of both sexes who I've considered dishonest, manipulative, bullying, or opportunistic.

I think he meant "Bad Hombres"

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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