Not sure that footing the bill for the drug tests is a possibility but I like the idea. I'm beaten regularly by dopers who have returned to the sport to compete or have yet to be caught if the rumors about SoCal bike racers are believed. I've been tested twice and expect that the cost of testing a mediocre 43 year old could have been used to target those making superhuman gains or putting out superhuman performances. Either way racing with suspected/former dopers provides motivation.

-SD

You're entitled to your opinion of course. It's petty that someone needs to cheat to feel good about themselves.
To my mind, when someone is a cheater, they tend to keep cheating. Even after a ban is served (and it this case she doesn't even seem to be serving her ban!) there is a reasonable suspicion that they are still cheating. the recidivist rates for people in the criminal justice system suggests this is the case).
I don't think that it's fair for me to have to pay to have the person tested, to provide at least some semblance of compliance with the rules. People compete for all sorts of reasons. Don't assume your reasons are my reasons. You may not care if you lose to cheaters, but I do. Personally I'm a fan of lifetime bans for a first offence. I will however concede that there are inadvertent results and some leopards do change their spots, so a lifetime ban for a second offence is reasonable.
A passed drug test doesn't prove someone is clean, but it goes some way to encouraging it. I don't think that we the clean athletes should cough up the cash for testing drug cheat. I think the drug cheat should pay. The cost may go some way to discouraging them from competing also, helping to clean up the sport.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Not saying I support the idea, but the facts show that it is pretty damn hard to get busted for doping as an amateur--few are tested. Not only does one have to be doping, they also have to be stupid.

Testing more athletes is a fine idea but is prohibitively expensive; it's not so much that the tests are expensive as there is a chain-of-custody required due to the serious implications.

So, **if** the community cares about policing doping, then the most effective tools are (a) make penalties severe and public for the few who do manage to get caught and (b) have the community self-police.

How can (b) be accomplished? Public shaming is pretty effective; it's surely a deterrent for some if they see how ugly things can get now, and in the future, for people who cheat at hobbies. Race directors are also free to have their own rules, such as not allowing banned athletes or any athletes who have ever been banned to race in their events.

Social shaming can be quite effective.

Do you have any other suggestions?

It would be nice if every amateur competitor could be trusted, but some spoil it for the rest. The behavior of these few casts a shadow on the sport and contradicts everything that is good about amateur sport.

Then again, in this case the racer can simply switch names*, think they've shed their past and continue the behavior anew. That's psychopath/sociopath behavior. They probably think THEY are the injured party here, and will fail to show any remorse for those truly affected.

___
* - They'll leave a trace (or others will for them). See "Ironman 70.3 Florida" and the new racing name. Maybe the doper should be the one to decide when they're ready to move on, like in a week?

Tetonrider, this isn't directed at you, you just happen to be where I had my fill.

Seriously? Maybe using the "logic" on display here, we should hold speeders to a different standard when they "return" to society. In the real world, a speeder poses far more threat to me and my loved ones than a doper in an athletic event. I am as against cheating in any form as the next person, but let's get a little perspective here - it's a freakin' triathlon.

The simple reality is the "hard-core" cheaters aren't getting caught. Lest anyone forget, LA never tested positive until well after he retired when frozen samples were retested using modern tests. I was a competitive swimmer back when the East German Women were heavily doping. We knew it, they knew we knew, and nobody cared. At the same time, the Communist block "amateur" athletes were all members of their respective countries military, paid to train full time. You know what we did? We didn't sit around and whine about it. We trained up and we beat them - straight up. We beat them.

Reading this thread has me laughing as I compare it to the AG triathlete who rides a 7-hour bike split that goes out and buys a $15,000 bike because it will save a couple seconds.

When you're in the top 1% of the top 1% you might have something to be concerned about. The rest of you? Really, go get your blanky and curl up in your safe place.

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"Obsessed is just a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated.

http://bscmultisport.com

I understand you said you weren't directing this at me, yet you replied to my post, so...

I cannot speak for others on this thread, but I think it is wrong to be so dismissive.

You are absolutely right that speeding might endanger the lives of others, yet doping would seemingly only endanger the life of the doper. Who cares about that, right?

Well, lots of people should care. Indulge me for a minute.

When the professional athlete dopes, they are often under medical supervision. Money is involved. Maybe we should let them dope (like the NFL), because superhuman performances are what we want to see, right?

Well, what happens to the aspiring pro? The collegiate athlete? The high school athlete? The junior high school athlete? What about the amateur who just wants to be like the pro?

Sounds far-fetched, right?

This is a triathlon-focused site. While racing in Kona may not be achievable for all triathletes, it is a dream for many and is held up as the pinnacle of amateur achievement for the age grouper. Perhaps it *shouldn't* be held in such high regard, but it is. Naturally, many amateurs and people new to the sport will admire those who have raced in Kona.

Is it such a stretch that they might try to emulate what some of those folks are doing to get there? And, if they do, doesn't that filter down the line?

Yeah, it does.

Speeding is done in full view of the public, like drafting. Doping is done in secret. While both private and public nefarious actions can have the same net effect (namely, a competitive advantage), one of them is much easier to spot and penalize. Drafting, for example, is available to all and the risks of getting caught are established. People do it with their race # in full view.

I'm sure someone will argue doping is available to all, but not everyone has the money or medical connections to do it, and the penalties are not as established because testing is spotty. It might be different if testing were somehow universal.


Anyway, what I think we are really talking about here is AMATEUR SPORT, which is intended to be fair competition PURELY for the beauty of competition. Money is not on the line, like pro sports -- and yet amateur sport still excites our dreams and fantasies. Who didn't play Little League baseball (or insert any other sport for youth) and use it to fuel much bigger dreams? Lots of people pour a large amount of their free time and passion into amateur sport, which is a part of what makes it great. They BELIEVE in it.


I'd argue that this behind-closed-doors cheating are an affront to the very core of amateur sport. It's not just about one person (2nd place) getting screwed out of a homemade trophy -- it's about someone pissing in the pot that we ALL drink from.

While all the above represents my feelings, I do believe that in the long-term whether one wins or loses (or loses out to a doper), the real value is what all the hours of training teach us about ourselves -- or the lessons we received during those moments where we wanted to quit in a race but didn't.


The fact that I will lose out sometime in the future to someone who is doping (as I have in the past) doesn't deter me from training to do my own best as dopers don't define MY experience.


That said, while not allowing dopers to define my experience I can still hold the belief that doping, particularly amongst amateurs, is reprehensible.


Some might say the only victims are the person who finished 2nd or the one who missed the Kona slot is a gross understatement. No one is going to die out there like someone driving 120mph in a 25mph zone -- no argument there. That is not and should not be the only standard to judge whether something is worth our scrutiny.


Amateur sport is an institution and should be treated with respect.

Just thinking out loud, and it wouldn't be perfect, but I'm thinking that for any athlete returning to competition after a doping ban, they should be tested every single time they compete.


I'm curious why people think that testing for drugs actually works all of a sudden.

Testing works once in a while. Some dopers get popped by the tests. For arguments sake, let's say it works 50% of the time. Not testing works 0% of the time. Testing is better. Testing works a little bit as a deterrent. Paying for your own tests after a doping ban will be somewhat of a deterrent, and may lead to you do less drugs or may mean you race less often.

As I noted in my original post, "it wouldn't be perfect..." but it's a step in the right direction

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

That's funny. The vast majority of guys who attempt to race "geezer+" 1-3 lead a grim existence of pack finishes (or worse) because a relative handful of guys, of which you are definitely one, are always sorting out the podium amongst themselves.

You must know more than I do, though. I know one well-known past doper we both race against. I shared a podium twice with him last year. I really don't know of any others actively racing. Meeker packed it in apparently, and started a health drink business called "Juiced." (that's not a joke - you can't make this stuff up).

The team I ride with occasionally tips the scales in my favor and perhaps a distant 2nd is my 25 years of racing experience. It's certainly not my athletic ability.
Can't say I know who you are IRL, I'm out for 4-6 weeks with a busted up shoulder but please introduce yourself the next time we line up together.

Regards,
Dave

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era