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Re: NATO [ironmayb] [ In reply to ]
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what's with Canada?

Every individual in Canada doesn't necessarily agree with the position of our government.

I happen to think NATO is somewhat obsolete in many ways. Countries act in their own interests and for the most part, won't co-operate with other countries if they can take credit for themselves. Governments want to stay in power, not help other countries. You have agencies in the U.S who won't co-operate amongst themselves, why would they co-operate with a foreign country?

My point was really more of a conflicting message. Through the campaign, Trump and Bannon were talking about a new world order, clearly moving closer to Russia and further from the established alliances. That message was repeated over and over and I kept hearing how voters supported that view, they wanted a change. Then Pence went to Europe and said the U.S is 100% in support of NATO which really wan't want Trump and Bannon have been saying at all.

It sure didn't strike me as a new world order when Pence said everything is the same except we would like the NATO members to contribute their fair share, something the U.S has been saying for years. In fact, I see absolutely nothing different, it's exactly the way it's always been.

I thought things were going to be different, silly me.

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Re: NATO [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
I'm confused. I thought the NATO agreement was that you had to spend at least 2% of your GNP on defense not contribute 2 percent of your GDP to NATO. Having said that as a Canadian I am embarrassed that it appears we are spending about 1 percent of our GDP on defense.

cerveloguy wrote:
ironmayb wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
So is the Trump administration going to support NATO or not?


Canada hasn't made the 2% commitment for many years. And don't blame just the Liberal governments. The Conservative government of Stephen Harper was one of the biggest defense budget slashers despite all the rhetoric. Will have to wait and see if Trudeau does anything.
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Re: NATO [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
what's with Canada?

Every individual in Canada doesn't necessarily agree with the position of our government.

I happen to think NATO is somewhat obsolete in many ways. Countries act in their own interests and for the most part, won't co-operate with other countries if they can take credit for themselves. Governments want to stay in power, not help other countries. You have agencies in the U.S who won't co-operate amongst themselves, why would they co-operate with a foreign country?

My point was really more of a conflicting message. Through the campaign, Trump and Bannon were talking about a new world order, clearly moving closer to Russia and further from the established alliances. That message was repeated over and over and I kept hearing how voters supported that view, they wanted a change. Then Pence went to Europe and said the U.S is 100% in support of NATO which really wan't want Trump and Bannon have been saying at all.

It sure didn't strike me as a new world order when Pence said everything is the same except we would like the NATO members to contribute their fair share, something the U.S has been saying for years. In fact, I see absolutely nothing different, it's exactly the way it's always been.

I thought things were going to be different, silly me.

I get your point. I don't think their messages conflict but I can see that you do

Not everyone in the us agrees either, in case that hasn't been obvious

I think canada should honor their position or work to have it changed. Not decide that it no longer applies to them

More importantly, whether their messages agree or not, I for one am happy it is a topic of conversation. I don't know how it ends but I hope we are all in agreement when it does. When was the last time NATO was a topic of conversation in the US. There are people in this thread that agree with trump it is obsolete. I don't have a strong opinion. But I don't think we should just blindly continue our financial commitment to it when others are not and we haven't discussed why or whether it is obsolete or what other countries do/say

Oh, and I think merkel's position on it sucks and she won't get dragged into a debate because it's one she will lose. Which I hadn't considered until trump and pence raised this as an issue
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Re: NATO [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Trump said he'd 'never' help Europe in case of war, top EU official (msn.com)

"You need to understand that if Europe is under attack we will never come to help you and to support you... By the way, NATO is dead, and we will leave, we will quit NATO,"



Once again Trump confirms he is a steaming pile of poop.
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Re: NATO [Nutella] [ In reply to ]
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Yes

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: NATO [Nutella] [ In reply to ]
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Rueters has a bit more meat to this alleged quote. They are looking for confirmation sources. So far none have stepped up. A google search of this Economic Forum in Davos just before Covid went off does show that TFG was in rare form with his America first and climate denial ranting and boasting. The quote is too true to form not to be believed.

Related to this allegation . On reading of this incident I could not help but think of his one on one with Putin in Helsinki. If ever the time was right to leak for our interpreter to come forward to account.......
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