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Using a max effort to failure a good way to determine better performance?
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I often see studies on athletes using an effort to failure. Some appear to be max efforts while others are sub-maximal. An example would be someone riding at 300 watts as long as they can, or running 6 min/mile as long as they can.

Are those tests better/worse than a specific time trial, say like a 40K ride or 10K run?

Do they show something that a time trial doesn't?

Just trying to understand the differences.
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Re: Using a max effort to failure a good way to determine better performance? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Using a max effort to failure a good way to determine better performance? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you
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Re: Using a max effort to failure a good way to determine better performance? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
I often see studies on athletes using an effort to failure. Some appear to be max efforts while others are sub-maximal. An example would be someone riding at 300 watts as long as they can, or running 6 min/mile as long as they can.

Are those tests better/worse than a specific time trial, say like a 40K ride or 10K run?

Do they show something that a time trial doesn't?

Just trying to understand the differences.


It depends where you look.., you said: "Do they show something that a time trial doesn't? " can you explain what time trial shows you?

You need to ask yourself question: How; whatever I do, at whatever wattage affects my body, my cardiac system, respiratory system etc, oxygen utilization etc...
Also running is not cycling...your VO2max will change, your lactate threshold might change, and potentially many other factors depending how good/efficient you are at each discipline.
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Re: Using a max effort to failure a good way to determine better performance? [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you, more things to think about.
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Using a max effort to failure a good way to determine better performance? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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Using a max effort to failure a good way to determine better performance?

If you want to explore an alternative understanding to what is behind performance, look at the ideas of Alois Mader, Jan Olbrecht and Sebastian Weber. Their theory of performance is based on the interaction of the aerobic and anaerobic systems (glycolysis).

For a measure of aerobic capacity one can approximate it with a time trial which is a max ride over an extended period of time. There are other ways to measure aerobic capacity that do to require these max efforts. One of which is the VO2 max test. An even shorter example is one or two six minute lactate tests at sub maximal levels. This often is just as good or better for estimating aerobic capacity than a time trial or long all out effort. But like the time trial all tests of this nature has limitations. They do not account for the effect of the anaerobic system.

For the anaerobic system, a max effort is usually required. A very short all out effort can help estimate the anaerobic or glycolytic capacity.

There are variations of this which does not require any max efforts but one needs special software for this analysis.

To see Olbrecht's test, there is a video from several years ago that illustrates the process for swimming.

http://bit.ly/1PeCJBx

Weber's software is now being used by somecycling and swimming federations in Europe and hopefully, will be available soon for everyone. It was supposed to be available last year but is expected to be available soon.

For a general discussion of what is behind these approaches , one can go to our web page on what causes the lactate threshold.

http://www.lactate.com/lactate_threshold.html

Each of these approaches uses a model of exercise metabolism developed at the Sports School in Cologne and uses simulations to provide the aerobic and anaerobic capacities that produce the specific results.

==============

Jerry Cosgrove

Sports Resource Group
http://www.lactate.com
https://twitter.com/@LactatedotCom
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Re: Using a max effort to failure a good way to determine better performance? [Jerryc] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you

jaretj
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