"Trump is masterfully controlling the conversation?" It's amazing how we can see things so differently. Trump is over his head, policy-wise and politically, and hasn't a clue. Flynn's "resignation" is just the tip of the iceberg.
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Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [MidwestRoadie]
[ In reply to ]
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [El Jefe]
[ In reply to ]
do you believe there is a case that this sentiment is at a higher rate for Trump? that's a question for opinion I realize, but judging by posts here in the LR, hatred for Trump is far greater than the others. Notice I said hatred, not criticism of.
I think that when criticism goes up it is usually warranted. For example, after 9/11, Bush's popularity rating was off the charts and the criticism started in the way the war on terror was executed. With Obama, he had high ratings but a lot of the criticism started with his executive overreach and pushing through Obamacare without Republican cooperation (or purposeful blocking depending on where you stand). Obama was also widely praised for getting bin Laden.
The anger against Trump did start early, the day after inauguration, but that is largely due to the way Trump himself handled himself during the campaign. With his comments about women, Federal judges and late night tweets, he set himself up for criticism. The problems since then (eg. issuing an EO to deal with immigrants after slamming Obama for EO's, more criticism of Federal judges, head of NSA lying to the public and to the VP, inappropriate dealings with allies like Australia, the flip flop on the 1 China policy and the comical lapses in communication by senior staff) are a few of the reasons the criticism is boiling over.
There was a fair amount of praise over his Supreme Court nomination and many of his cabinet picks like Rex Tillerson or Jim Mattis have not been criticized anymore than usual so it shows if he does good things, the criticism will stop. There is also a lot of criticism over his thin skin, constant attempts to attack anyone who says a negative thing and his late night tweets. He often acts like a kid in high school and he only has himself to blame for that.
I think that when criticism goes up it is usually warranted. For example, after 9/11, Bush's popularity rating was off the charts and the criticism started in the way the war on terror was executed. With Obama, he had high ratings but a lot of the criticism started with his executive overreach and pushing through Obamacare without Republican cooperation (or purposeful blocking depending on where you stand). Obama was also widely praised for getting bin Laden.
The anger against Trump did start early, the day after inauguration, but that is largely due to the way Trump himself handled himself during the campaign. With his comments about women, Federal judges and late night tweets, he set himself up for criticism. The problems since then (eg. issuing an EO to deal with immigrants after slamming Obama for EO's, more criticism of Federal judges, head of NSA lying to the public and to the VP, inappropriate dealings with allies like Australia, the flip flop on the 1 China policy and the comical lapses in communication by senior staff) are a few of the reasons the criticism is boiling over.
There was a fair amount of praise over his Supreme Court nomination and many of his cabinet picks like Rex Tillerson or Jim Mattis have not been criticized anymore than usual so it shows if he does good things, the criticism will stop. There is also a lot of criticism over his thin skin, constant attempts to attack anyone who says a negative thing and his late night tweets. He often acts like a kid in high school and he only has himself to blame for that.
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [cholla]
[ In reply to ]
Absolutely, they're controlling the conversation quite well. The Flynn resignation will be moved past within days. Just wait for something else outrageous to be said and take away that attention, but you'll be kept guessing at what that is & then there will be something else.
How else does he cover up how over his head he is with politics and policies and get pet projects pushed while stroking his ego? Read this; it's quite interesting.
How else does he cover up how over his head he is with politics and policies and get pet projects pushed while stroking his ego? Read this; it's quite interesting.
cholla wrote:
"Trump is masterfully controlling the conversation?" It's amazing how we can see things so differently. Trump is over his head, policy-wise and politically, and hasn't a clue. Flynn's "resignation" is just the tip of the iceberg.
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [MidwestRoadie]
[ In reply to ]
MidwestRoadie wrote:
That's hoping for a lot. Have you been reading the rhetoric and gamesmenship from both sides? Trump is masterfully controlling the conversation and moving the pieces; his opponents are masterfully chasing each shiny object. He's going to make it through politically, aside from the same type of mid-term beating Obama took in 2010. His health is another question, but that's probably going to be fine enough also.
cholla wrote:
"Could even undo his presidency?" At this point, I'd bet money that Trump doesn't make it through 2017. He might not even make it through March. It's just a question of how long it takes for enough Republicans to start putting the country before their party. They certainly don't want to do that, but they will begin to understand that failing to remove Trump (and possible Pence, too) will cost them dearly.I'm not sure how you can say what has been going on has been masterful.
Let's recap:
- the chaotic executive order on the immigration ban
- pushing his daughter's clothing line on national TV
- insulting the leaders of Mexico and Australia (I know, it's cool to say this doesn't matter, so go ahead... "Murica!")
- nominating Betsy DeVos as education secretary, someone clearly unqualified and a large campaign donor
- failure to get some of his other cabinet picks confirmed, with some Republican opposition to them
- unusual contact with senior Russian officials, both before and after the election, and brushing off Russia's meddling in the election
- offending senior members of the intelligence community and breaching their trust
- having your WH spokesman lampooned on a national comedy show (funny, but not very masterful)
- having your NSA resign barely a month into your presidency
- polling some of the worst numbers for a president this new
- alleged divisions within his closest advisers
- calling the judge's decision "outrageous" and then minutes later revising the statement to remove the word (then minutes later Trump tweeting he was a "so-called judge")
- not mentioning Jews in his holocaust statement
I will applaud him for not following through on his planned EO undoing Obama's protections for LGBTs, but that was apparently Ivanka's influence.
Masterfully controlling the conversation? Really?
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [Kay Serrar]
[ In reply to ]
I said it's a masterful control of the conversation, not good or moral. I actually think it's awful.
But just look at how quickly we've moved past each of those individual issues and onto the next, so focused on the next issue that the last one is just forgotten. It's brilliant in a chaotic way. It's not good. Not good at all. But it's a damn master class in controlling what the nation is talking about without having the nation actually spending any time talking about any one issue long enough to do anything about it.
I hate it. It's terrible and in nobody's best interest from a policy standpoint, but who's controlling the dialogue?
Let's recap:
- the chaotic executive order on the immigration ban
- pushing his daughter's clothing line on national TV
- insulting the leaders of Mexico and Australia (I know, it's cool to say this doesn't matter, so go ahead... "Murica!")
- nominating Betsy DeVos as education secretary, someone clearly unqualified and a large campaign donor
- failure to get some of his other cabinet picks confirmed, with some Republican opposition to them
- unusual contact with senior Russian officials, both before and after the election, and brushing off Russia's meddling in the election
- offending senior members of the intelligence community and breaching their trust
- having your WH spokesman lampooned on a national comedy show (funny, but not very masterful)
- having your NSA resign barely a month into your presidency
- polling some of the worst numbers for a president this new
- alleged divisions within his closest advisers
- calling the judge's decision "outrageous" and then minutes later revising the statement to remove the word (then minutes later Trump tweeting he was a "so-called judge")
- not mentioning Jews in his holocaust statement
I will applaud him for not following through on his planned EO undoing Obama's protections for LGBTs, but that was apparently Ivanka's influence.
Masterfully controlling the conversation? Really?
But just look at how quickly we've moved past each of those individual issues and onto the next, so focused on the next issue that the last one is just forgotten. It's brilliant in a chaotic way. It's not good. Not good at all. But it's a damn master class in controlling what the nation is talking about without having the nation actually spending any time talking about any one issue long enough to do anything about it.
I hate it. It's terrible and in nobody's best interest from a policy standpoint, but who's controlling the dialogue?
Kay Serrar wrote:
I'm not sure how you can say what has been going on has been masterful. Let's recap:
- the chaotic executive order on the immigration ban
- pushing his daughter's clothing line on national TV
- insulting the leaders of Mexico and Australia (I know, it's cool to say this doesn't matter, so go ahead... "Murica!")
- nominating Betsy DeVos as education secretary, someone clearly unqualified and a large campaign donor
- failure to get some of his other cabinet picks confirmed, with some Republican opposition to them
- unusual contact with senior Russian officials, both before and after the election, and brushing off Russia's meddling in the election
- offending senior members of the intelligence community and breaching their trust
- having your WH spokesman lampooned on a national comedy show (funny, but not very masterful)
- having your NSA resign barely a month into your presidency
- polling some of the worst numbers for a president this new
- alleged divisions within his closest advisers
- calling the judge's decision "outrageous" and then minutes later revising the statement to remove the word (then minutes later Trump tweeting he was a "so-called judge")
- not mentioning Jews in his holocaust statement
I will applaud him for not following through on his planned EO undoing Obama's protections for LGBTs, but that was apparently Ivanka's influence.
Masterfully controlling the conversation? Really?
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [MidwestRoadie]
[ In reply to ]
Interesting article, but it gives Trump too much credit. He simply isn't that smart. Even if he is orchestrating this strategy, the reality of his campaign's collusion with the Russians will still take him down. If not, this country is done
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [cholla]
[ In reply to ]
How can you simultaneously say that Trump isn't smart enough to orchestrate a strategy like that (or have a team that's able to do so) and also give him credit for potentially being strong enough to singlehandedly take down the largest economy and strongest military in the history of the world?
cholla wrote:
Interesting article, but it gives Trump too much credit. He simply isn't that smart. Even if he is orchestrating this strategy, the reality of his campaign's collusion with the Russians will still take him down. If not, this country is done
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [MidwestRoadie]
[ In reply to ]
He's not single-handedly doing anything. His authoritarianism may not even come from a desire to destroy democratic norms such as the free press, but rather from his narcissistic personality disorder. But he has legions of unquestioning, irrational followers who will support him, no matter what he does. As demonstrated on this and other threads here.
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [MidwestRoadie]
[ In reply to ]
This makes Trump the Homer Simpson of presidents. He's so grossly incompetent and bumbling so much, so often, that we pass over the last disaster because we know a new boneheaded fiasco is on its way. This is great way of going about if you're Home Simpson (or Barney Fife or Mr. Furley) but not for the president of the USA.
He's causing serious and permanent damage to both the United States and to the office of the PoTUS.
But just look at how quickly we've moved past each of those individual issues and onto the next, so focused on the next issue that the last one is just forgotten. It's brilliant in a chaotic way. It's not good. Not good at all. But it's a damn master class in controlling what the nation is talking about without having the nation actually spending any time talking about any one issue long enough to do anything about it.
I hate it. It's terrible and in nobody's best interest from a policy standpoint, but who's controlling the dialogue?
Let's recap:
- the chaotic executive order on the immigration ban
- pushing his daughter's clothing line on national TV
- insulting the leaders of Mexico and Australia (I know, it's cool to say this doesn't matter, so go ahead... "Murica!")
- nominating Betsy DeVos as education secretary, someone clearly unqualified and a large campaign donor
- failure to get some of his other cabinet picks confirmed, with some Republican opposition to them
- unusual contact with senior Russian officials, both before and after the election, and brushing off Russia's meddling in the election
- offending senior members of the intelligence community and breaching their trust
- having your WH spokesman lampooned on a national comedy show (funny, but not very masterful)
- having your NSA resign barely a month into your presidency
- polling some of the worst numbers for a president this new
- alleged divisions within his closest advisers
- calling the judge's decision "outrageous" and then minutes later revising the statement to remove the word (then minutes later Trump tweeting he was a "so-called judge")
- not mentioning Jews in his holocaust statement
I will applaud him for not following through on his planned EO undoing Obama's protections for LGBTs, but that was apparently Ivanka's influence.
Masterfully controlling the conversation? Really?
Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
He's causing serious and permanent damage to both the United States and to the office of the PoTUS.
MidwestRoadie wrote:
I said it's a masterful control of the conversation, not good or moral. I actually think it's awful. But just look at how quickly we've moved past each of those individual issues and onto the next, so focused on the next issue that the last one is just forgotten. It's brilliant in a chaotic way. It's not good. Not good at all. But it's a damn master class in controlling what the nation is talking about without having the nation actually spending any time talking about any one issue long enough to do anything about it.
I hate it. It's terrible and in nobody's best interest from a policy standpoint, but who's controlling the dialogue?
Kay Serrar wrote:
I'm not sure how you can say what has been going on has been masterful. Let's recap:
- the chaotic executive order on the immigration ban
- pushing his daughter's clothing line on national TV
- insulting the leaders of Mexico and Australia (I know, it's cool to say this doesn't matter, so go ahead... "Murica!")
- nominating Betsy DeVos as education secretary, someone clearly unqualified and a large campaign donor
- failure to get some of his other cabinet picks confirmed, with some Republican opposition to them
- unusual contact with senior Russian officials, both before and after the election, and brushing off Russia's meddling in the election
- offending senior members of the intelligence community and breaching their trust
- having your WH spokesman lampooned on a national comedy show (funny, but not very masterful)
- having your NSA resign barely a month into your presidency
- polling some of the worst numbers for a president this new
- alleged divisions within his closest advisers
- calling the judge's decision "outrageous" and then minutes later revising the statement to remove the word (then minutes later Trump tweeting he was a "so-called judge")
- not mentioning Jews in his holocaust statement
I will applaud him for not following through on his planned EO undoing Obama's protections for LGBTs, but that was apparently Ivanka's influence.
Masterfully controlling the conversation? Really?
Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [MidwestRoadie]
[ In reply to ]
MidwestRoadie wrote:
How can you simultaneously say that Trump isn't smart enough to orchestrate a strategy like that (or have a team that's able to do so) and also give him credit for potentially being strong enough to singlehandedly take down the largest economy and strongest military in the history of the world? cholla wrote:
Interesting article, but it gives Trump too much credit. He simply isn't that smart. Even if he is orchestrating this strategy, the reality of his campaign's collusion with the Russians will still take him down. If not, this country is doneTrump certainly won't "take down" the US economy and sink its military, if that's what you want to define being "done" as. But I agree that he is not smart enough to orchestrate a strategy as laid out in that somewhat bizarre chess article. Trump is bumbling in the dark badly, not cleverly keeping us on our toes guessing his next brilliant chess move.
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [Dirt fighter]
[ In reply to ]
Dirt fighter wrote:
Incase you,ve been living under a rock, the majority in this country are sick of the the establishment in both partys. And there happy hes has been eviscerating them. This if anything shows the country just how nasty and desperate they are to stay in control. The dirty tricks and collusion that will be brought to light are only gonna gain him support. You lap up what you see on tv and believe every word. You probably even believe that that the country is turning on the president. Make sure you stock up on play dough before mid term elections.
In case YOU haven't been paying attention, the majority of the country is sick of the establishment of the OTHER party.
_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [Guffaw]
[ In reply to ]
I completely agree that he's causing damage to the office of POTUS (or SCROTUS, So-Called Ruler Of The U.S.). Homer may have been a nice guy who happened to be a bumbling idiot. I don't think anyone has the opinion that Trump is a nice guy, even if they support him and what he happens to find himself getting into.
He's causing serious and permanent damage to both the United States and to the office of the PoTUS.
Guffaw wrote:
This makes Trump the Homer Simpson of presidents. He's so grossly incompetent and bumbling so much, so often, that we pass over the last disaster because we know a new boneheaded fiasco is on its way. This is great way of going about if you're Home Simpson (or Barney Fife or Mr. Furley) but not for the president of the USA. He's causing serious and permanent damage to both the United States and to the office of the PoTUS.
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [rick_pcfl]
[ In reply to ]
rick_pcfl wrote:
A few weeks back, someone accused you of being Yahey. I am beginning to think they were right. He would post stupid, hateful shit, just like you do.I am not Yahey, but, I am a meanie [at least according to some of you softies]. If The Apprentice doesn't want to be the target of so much negative attention and outright hateful vitriol he shouldn't have gotten himself elected president.
I have a personality disorder, I don't drink coffee...
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [Kay Serrar]
[ In reply to ]
Kay Serrar wrote:
MidwestRoadie wrote:
That's hoping for a lot. Have you been reading the rhetoric and gamesmenship from both sides? Trump is masterfully controlling the conversation and moving the pieces; his opponents are masterfully chasing each shiny object. He's going to make it through politically, aside from the same type of mid-term beating Obama took in 2010. His health is another question, but that's probably going to be fine enough also.
cholla wrote:
"Could even undo his presidency?" At this point, I'd bet money that Trump doesn't make it through 2017. He might not even make it through March. It's just a question of how long it takes for enough Republicans to start putting the country before their party. They certainly don't want to do that, but they will begin to understand that failing to remove Trump (and possible Pence, too) will cost them dearly.I'm not sure how you can say what has been going on has been masterful.
Let's recap:
- the chaotic executive order on the immigration ban
- pushing his daughter's clothing line on national TV
- insulting the leaders of Mexico and Australia (I know, it's cool to say this doesn't matter, so go ahead... "Murica!")
- nominating Betsy DeVos as education secretary, someone clearly unqualified and a large campaign donor
- failure to get some of his other cabinet picks confirmed, with some Republican opposition to them
- unusual contact with senior Russian officials, both before and after the election, and brushing off Russia's meddling in the election
- offending senior members of the intelligence community and breaching their trust
- having your WH spokesman lampooned on a national comedy show (funny, but not very masterful)
- having your NSA resign barely a month into your presidency
- polling some of the worst numbers for a president this new
- alleged divisions within his closest advisers
- calling the judge's decision "outrageous" and then minutes later revising the statement to remove the word (then minutes later Trump tweeting he was a "so-called judge")
- not mentioning Jews in his holocaust statement
I will applaud him for not following through on his planned EO undoing Obama's protections for LGBTs, but that was apparently Ivanka's influence.
Masterfully controlling the conversation? Really?
Be honest. Was the man living in your head typing those bullet points?
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [Kay Serrar]
[ In reply to ]
You're not going to get me to say that he has some great long-term plan and strategy to execute it to the end. His plan is to come out on top of his opponents, which happens to be the DNC right now. He doesn't have to be smart to do that, just savvy enough to create chaos. He's doing that. He's been written off for 2 years now. First it was that he'd never win a primary state; then it was that he couldn't secure the nomination; then it was that he'd get kicked off the ticket; then it was that he'd have the largest electoral loss in history; then it was that he might take a surprise state or two; then it was "holy fucking donkey balls; what just happened?!?!?!?!?!?!" followed by oceans of tears and confusion (some of which may also have been shed by me).
But here he is -- still ahead of the field, still controlling the conversation. Notice how the Yemen raid just seems to be forgotten already and how there wasn't really anything said about the fact that 9 children were killed in that raid?
And the majority response has been reactionary. Kudos to the ACLU for using the court system we have, but the DNC needs to get their act together and formulate a plan to get ahead of the dialogue when the next issue happens. The same obstructionism that happened during the Obama years won't look good on the Dems if they try to play that strategic card.
Trump certainly won't "take down" the US economy and sink its military, if that's what you want to define being "done" as. But I agree that he is not smart enough to orchestrate a strategy as laid out in that somewhat bizarre chess article. Trump is bumbling in the dark badly, not cleverly keeping us on our toes guessing his next brilliant chess move.
But here he is -- still ahead of the field, still controlling the conversation. Notice how the Yemen raid just seems to be forgotten already and how there wasn't really anything said about the fact that 9 children were killed in that raid?
And the majority response has been reactionary. Kudos to the ACLU for using the court system we have, but the DNC needs to get their act together and formulate a plan to get ahead of the dialogue when the next issue happens. The same obstructionism that happened during the Obama years won't look good on the Dems if they try to play that strategic card.
Kay Serrar wrote:
MidwestRoadie wrote:
How can you simultaneously say that Trump isn't smart enough to orchestrate a strategy like that (or have a team that's able to do so) and also give him credit for potentially being strong enough to singlehandedly take down the largest economy and strongest military in the history of the world? cholla wrote:
Interesting article, but it gives Trump too much credit. He simply isn't that smart. Even if he is orchestrating this strategy, the reality of his campaign's collusion with the Russians will still take him down. If not, this country is doneTrump certainly won't "take down" the US economy and sink its military, if that's what you want to define being "done" as. But I agree that he is not smart enough to orchestrate a strategy as laid out in that somewhat bizarre chess article. Trump is bumbling in the dark badly, not cleverly keeping us on our toes guessing his next brilliant chess move.
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [MidwestRoadie]
[ In reply to ]
I agree with most of that and yes, the Dems are a mess without any clear leadership. Just look at their press conference yesterday when they pressed about the Flynn issues. They had at least 4 different people saying the same thing, with little gravitas. What will be more interesting is how much push-back Trump gets from Republicans in Congress. Ultimately I think his scorched earth MO will be his undoing.
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [Old Hickory]
[ In reply to ]
It didn't take much searching the interwebs to come up with that list. And I'm sure it's not exhaustive. I didn't even mention Kelly Anne Conway!
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
Tillerson hasn't been criticized anymore than usual?
I think that when criticism goes up it is usually warranted. For example, after 9/11, Bush's popularity rating was off the charts and the criticism started in the way the war on terror was executed. With Obama, he had high ratings but a lot of the criticism started with his executive overreach and pushing through Obamacare without Republican cooperation (or purposeful blocking depending on where you stand). Obama was also widely praised for getting bin Laden.
The anger against Trump did start early, the day after inauguration, but that is largely due to the way Trump himself handled himself during the campaign. With his comments about women, Federal judges and late night tweets, he set himself up for criticism. The problems since then (eg. issuing an EO to deal with immigrants after slamming Obama for EO's, more criticism of Federal judges, head of NSA lying to the public and to the VP, inappropriate dealings with allies like Australia, the flip flop on the 1 China policy and the comical lapses in communication by senior staff) are a few of the reasons the criticism is boiling over.
There was a fair amount of praise over his Supreme Court nomination and many of his cabinet picks like Rex Tillerson or Jim Mattis have not been criticized anymore than usual so it shows if he does good things, the criticism will stop. There is also a lot of criticism over his thin skin, constant attempts to attack anyone who says a negative thing and his late night tweets. He often acts like a kid in high school and he only has himself to blame for that.
Sanuk wrote:
do you believe there is a case that this sentiment is at a higher rate for Trump? that's a question for opinion I realize, but judging by posts here in the LR, hatred for Trump is far greater than the others. Notice I said hatred, not criticism of. I think that when criticism goes up it is usually warranted. For example, after 9/11, Bush's popularity rating was off the charts and the criticism started in the way the war on terror was executed. With Obama, he had high ratings but a lot of the criticism started with his executive overreach and pushing through Obamacare without Republican cooperation (or purposeful blocking depending on where you stand). Obama was also widely praised for getting bin Laden.
The anger against Trump did start early, the day after inauguration, but that is largely due to the way Trump himself handled himself during the campaign. With his comments about women, Federal judges and late night tweets, he set himself up for criticism. The problems since then (eg. issuing an EO to deal with immigrants after slamming Obama for EO's, more criticism of Federal judges, head of NSA lying to the public and to the VP, inappropriate dealings with allies like Australia, the flip flop on the 1 China policy and the comical lapses in communication by senior staff) are a few of the reasons the criticism is boiling over.
There was a fair amount of praise over his Supreme Court nomination and many of his cabinet picks like Rex Tillerson or Jim Mattis have not been criticized anymore than usual so it shows if he does good things, the criticism will stop. There is also a lot of criticism over his thin skin, constant attempts to attack anyone who says a negative thing and his late night tweets. He often acts like a kid in high school and he only has himself to blame for that.
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [cholla]
[ In reply to ]
cholla wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
Fleck wrote:
Why do you think Trump is so soft on Russia? Doesn't concern You? It's interesting how this issue keeps getting quickly brushed aside. Think this over carefully - Another country meddled in your election.
Trump's reaction and the reaction of many Republicans - a so-what, shrug of the shoulders!
Anyone who believes in democracy and freedom should be very worried about this and want to get to the bottom of it - full-stop.
Note - I'd be saying this, and wanting this to be FULLY investigated, regardless of who won. This concern should cross all political lines!
Yes, it is very concerning and I dont know why so many Trump supporters seem so quick to dismiss it all.
I suspect the reason Trump has not released his tax returns is that they would show evidence of business ties with Russia. Now that he has won the election, there are few other reasons he wouldn't want to. We already know he doesn't pay much tax or give much to charity.
Then there is all the contact with the Russians. During the campaign, by his one time campaign Chairman Paul Manafort, by Flynn. And while Trump is brushing off Russia's meddling in the election, he is busy slamming everyone else: Europe, China, Mexico, and even our NATO allies. Suddenly he made it flavor of the day to support Russia and so much blind groupthink followed along, and continues to do so.
It's very perplexing, but I suspect there will be a hearing on these issues and much more will come to light. It could even undo his presidency. From a high level view the whole thing is surreal. But so many Trump supporters seems happy to brush it all off for some reason. Fakemedia didn't lead to Flynn's resignation....
"Could even undo his presidency?" At this point, I'd bet money that Trump doesn't make it through 2017. He might not even make it through March. It's just a question of how long it takes for enough Republicans to start putting the country before their party. They certainly don't want to do that, but they will begin to understand that failing to remove Trump (and possible Pence, too) will cost them dearly.
50 bucks says he makes it through 2017.
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [JSully]
[ In reply to ]
Tillerson hasn't been criticized anymore than usual?
I mean the appointment of Tillerson as Secretary of State hasn't been criticized too much, at least compared with Devos and a few others. He did face some skepticism from within the GOP due to his ties to Russia but since confirmed, I haven't seen a lot of protests against his nomination. The votes were along party lines but the Democrats did that mainly because of the mystery behind the Russian connection.
I have heard almost nothing from Tillerson since his appointment, which is a miracle these days. I like him and think he will make a great SS but like most of the administration, the Russian connection is still a mystery that could cause problems.
I mean the appointment of Tillerson as Secretary of State hasn't been criticized too much, at least compared with Devos and a few others. He did face some skepticism from within the GOP due to his ties to Russia but since confirmed, I haven't seen a lot of protests against his nomination. The votes were along party lines but the Democrats did that mainly because of the mystery behind the Russian connection.
I have heard almost nothing from Tillerson since his appointment, which is a miracle these days. I like him and think he will make a great SS but like most of the administration, the Russian connection is still a mystery that could cause problems.
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [windywave]
[ In reply to ]
windywave wrote:
cholla wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
Fleck wrote:
Why do you think Trump is so soft on Russia? Doesn't concern You? It's interesting how this issue keeps getting quickly brushed aside. Think this over carefully - Another country meddled in your election.
Trump's reaction and the reaction of many Republicans - a so-what, shrug of the shoulders!
Anyone who believes in democracy and freedom should be very worried about this and want to get to the bottom of it - full-stop.
Note - I'd be saying this, and wanting this to be FULLY investigated, regardless of who won. This concern should cross all political lines!
Yes, it is very concerning and I dont know why so many Trump supporters seem so quick to dismiss it all.
I suspect the reason Trump has not released his tax returns is that they would show evidence of business ties with Russia. Now that he has won the election, there are few other reasons he wouldn't want to. We already know he doesn't pay much tax or give much to charity.
Then there is all the contact with the Russians. During the campaign, by his one time campaign Chairman Paul Manafort, by Flynn. And while Trump is brushing off Russia's meddling in the election, he is busy slamming everyone else: Europe, China, Mexico, and even our NATO allies. Suddenly he made it flavor of the day to support Russia and so much blind groupthink followed along, and continues to do so.
It's very perplexing, but I suspect there will be a hearing on these issues and much more will come to light. It could even undo his presidency. From a high level view the whole thing is surreal. But so many Trump supporters seems happy to brush it all off for some reason. Fakemedia didn't lead to Flynn's resignation....
"Could even undo his presidency?" At this point, I'd bet money that Trump doesn't make it through 2017. He might not even make it through March. It's just a question of how long it takes for enough Republicans to start putting the country before their party. They certainly don't want to do that, but they will begin to understand that failing to remove Trump (and possible Pence, too) will cost them dearly.
50 bucks says he makes it through 2017.
By "make it through" I mean that he would not still be President, by whatever reason. I don't think he will be President on January 1, 2018. Wanna make it a nice, even $100?
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [cholla]
[ In reply to ]
cholla wrote:
windywave wrote:
cholla wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
Fleck wrote:
Why do you think Trump is so soft on Russia? Doesn't concern You? It's interesting how this issue keeps getting quickly brushed aside. Think this over carefully - Another country meddled in your election.
Trump's reaction and the reaction of many Republicans - a so-what, shrug of the shoulders!
Anyone who believes in democracy and freedom should be very worried about this and want to get to the bottom of it - full-stop.
Note - I'd be saying this, and wanting this to be FULLY investigated, regardless of who won. This concern should cross all political lines!
Yes, it is very concerning and I dont know why so many Trump supporters seem so quick to dismiss it all.
I suspect the reason Trump has not released his tax returns is that they would show evidence of business ties with Russia. Now that he has won the election, there are few other reasons he wouldn't want to. We already know he doesn't pay much tax or give much to charity.
Then there is all the contact with the Russians. During the campaign, by his one time campaign Chairman Paul Manafort, by Flynn. And while Trump is brushing off Russia's meddling in the election, he is busy slamming everyone else: Europe, China, Mexico, and even our NATO allies. Suddenly he made it flavor of the day to support Russia and so much blind groupthink followed along, and continues to do so.
It's very perplexing, but I suspect there will be a hearing on these issues and much more will come to light. It could even undo his presidency. From a high level view the whole thing is surreal. But so many Trump supporters seems happy to brush it all off for some reason. Fakemedia didn't lead to Flynn's resignation....
"Could even undo his presidency?" At this point, I'd bet money that Trump doesn't make it through 2017. He might not even make it through March. It's just a question of how long it takes for enough Republicans to start putting the country before their party. They certainly don't want to do that, but they will begin to understand that failing to remove Trump (and possible Pence, too) will cost them dearly.
50 bucks says he makes it through 2017.
By "make it through" I mean that he would not still be President, by whatever reason. I don't think he will be President on January 1, 2018. Wanna make it a nice, even $100?
50 only since my last 50 dollar bet turned out so well
Re: All things considered today would I still vote Trump? [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
TheForge wrote:
Over Hillary? Fuck yeah! And over anybody they put up except Jim Webb.hell yeah forgie .. wtf wouldn't you.? I mean , Shits 'running like a fiiine-tuned machine' ain't it.
Still would even after today.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden