It seems to me bike fitting is fundamentally about physiology and biomechanics and, within the envelope of the range of biomechanically viable positions, aerodynamics (on which one can get some, but limited, traction without testing in a wind tunnel or elsewhere). And yet armchair fit discussions on here seem to give physiology and biomechanics awfully short shrift. People eyeball positions and condemn them for appearing insufficiently aero without asking whether the rider's strength and flexibility would actually support the position they're advocating. And apparently smart and experienced people seem to do this. I'm a relative newbie, so maybe I'm missing something? Yes, there are some atrocious fits out there which one can legitimately dismiss based on a snapshot. But shouldn't there be more admitting the dramatic limitations of such armchair critiques and more references to physiology and biomechanics when we do critique?

Now take all that Dan and add the human body issues from the toe to your head. As we go thru life these variables will change and thus so does our bike fit.

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Robert Driskell
Certified Master Body Geometry fit Technician
Certified Master Retul Fit Technician
Zipp Service Course Specialist
Bikes Plus Pensacola Florida

Maybe. But I've stopped coming here as often because of him. So have others I know

Do your friends need instructions on how to block/hide a specific forum member? Of course they do, because they are really fucking dumb. Let me help you out:

a) log in
b) click on my user name hyperlink
c) select "hide user's posts"

Or you could take the chicken shit approach and complain to Dan/dad rather than a) use your words to counter the ideas I present and the opinions I advance; or b) utilize the simple forum functionality delineated above.

It astounds me how soft and weak many of you people are.

I think you mostly bring up good points and discussions, which I appreciate

But you do it mostly in a rude, condescending and degrading way. Generally you're a prick and negative which I don't enjoy being a part of

It's not about me being soft or weak.

Bike fitting is an unregulated, unlicensed, nascent "profession" going through a lot of evolution and challenges, as evidenced by many comments in this forum. Think how long it took chiropractors to get recognized as a legitimate health care provider, and in some quarters they are still considered charlatans.
Should bike fitters be required to have some sort of medical background? To some extent, yes. But to what extent?
Traditionally bike fitting has come from a strong bias to the bike, not the body. That's changing. More and more PT's are bringing a stronger awareness of the body to bike fitting, but the downside is they may lack some important bike knowledge pertaining to mechanical safety, geometry, handling or available component choices. It's hard to be awesome at everything!
A cyclist who knows they have physical issues to contend with that factor into their bike fit should look for a fitter that does have a medical background. However what is being more commonly advocated for now in bike fit land is a team based approach to bike fitting for those "hard to fit" clients. If a bike fitter can't resolve an issue and suspects or knows that there is some body stuff factoring into this, then recommending the rider to a PT or sports med doctor for additional assessment and insight is the right thing to do. Most bike fitters are not licensed medical practitioners, and so cant diagnose or prescribe. But if they know more about what is going on for the rider they can accommodate for that in the fit.
Most medical practitioners who are bike fitters can make way more money practicing medicine than bike fitting, so they don't do much of the latter.

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John
http://fitkitsystems.com
http://www.bikefitr.com

Bump

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Robert Driskell
Certified Master Body Geometry fit Technician
Certified Master Retul Fit Technician
Zipp Service Course Specialist
Bikes Plus Pensacola Florida

You are the Milo Yiannopoulos of a triathlon internet forum. Congratulations, douchebag.

C'mon Pubes, "Danger Will Robinson!" is pretty common. On the other hand, your point on Veronica Lake is valid.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

"your point on Veronica Lake is valid"

veronica lake. hot. but lana turner. va va va voom.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I thought I would throw my experiences into the ring. I've done both the internet, old school, and tech method.

Internet: Got good advice to start with, which was way better than what I knew at the time...:)

Old school: I was fit on my road and TT bikes by a couple of different local fitters. One had done tons of roadies/track riders. He just had me ride a trainer. Watched me and asked for my feedback. I noticed a huge difference on my road bike right away. My main fits on my road/TT bike (that I primarily use today) were done by a reputable fitter in Chicago who just used a goniometer, his observations, and feedback. I would ride the position for a few weeks and come back for tweaking. To this day, I still ride these positions with just a few minor tweaks that I made. I paid zero for these fits (and follow up fits), since I bought the bikes from the shop.

Tech (Guru): The only reason I went this route was because I got a sweet team deal, and wanted to compare to something that was already working for me. I'm glad I didn't shell out full price for this, since it only told me my old position was faster and the new one was slower and not as comfortable.

I guess what I learned though all of this is that nothing beats experience. I think the attitude of the fitter and athlete matters as well. I know great fitters, who would put extra effort into me, but would unfortunately not give the average joe the best fit possible (and happily take their money).

I've actually fit a few people and have gotten compliments from them and others on their position. All I did was learn from what I've read over the years on ST and from my own experiences.

Getting fit is really not any different than finding a good mechanic, etc.

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"Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps"
Blog = http://extrememomentum.com|Photos = http://wheelgoodphotos.com

I know great fitters, who would put extra effort into me, but would unfortunately not give the average joe the best fit possible (and happily take their money).


Peter, I like so much of what you said but find a definitive conflict in a "great fitter" who "would...not give the average joe the best fit possible (and happily take their money)." Referencing the title of this thread, I wouldn't call these fitters of which you speak charlatans more like morally askew or perhaps with a weakened state of values. Shame on them, they're hindering the trust of our profession as well and, therefore, not "great".


Ian

Good call, Ian! I think the more proper description would be "very skilled" or "extremely competent", not great. Speaks to their fitting abilities, not their ethical/moral sense.

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"Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps"
Blog = http://extrememomentum.com|Photos = http://wheelgoodphotos.com

Veronica Lake's Wikipedia page listed Joseph McCarthy as one of her husbands - that momentarily threw ice water on the whole thing! Turns out of course it was a songwriter, not the senator.

I can't imagine anyone would argue with you on Lana Turner.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team