I think you need to qualify this question with "what age group".

The times I KQ'd at 5'6" 136-138 lbs my FTP was around 4.2W per kilo. My aeroness is pretty bad due to some neck and spine injuries. But one of those races was IM France where it's all about watts per kilo and heat management (which is why I picked it). Another was St. Croix which was also about watts per kilo and heat management. Another was IMLP that has some watts per kilo benefits on the bike and certainly on the run course. All this to say, I only KQ's when I picked a course where my lack of aeroness was not a massive penalty and my lack of weight was an advantage and my lack of top line power was not a huge disadvantage and the times I have qualified, heat has been a factor of sorts (making the lack of top line power an actual advantage since you generate less heat at lower power be it on the bike or run).

Thanks - I'm looking at M40-45. Was your weight with bike?

Nevermind - simple math - no it wasn't :-).

Thanks!

I'm about 140-143lbs in 45-49 w/ 240 FTP. My bike splits are not top but pretty good (KQ w/ a 6th place on the bike). The bigger gents can hammer past. I love the strategy part of the race and planning to your strengths. Primary weapon for me is the run w/ a 1st place in the division and a solid swim (2nd). Roll the dice and hold back a little on the bike with the plan to lay it down on the run. Easier said then done when you're feeling good out there.

No way I would qualify for Kona at 120 lbs body + 17 lbs bike and gear. Well, unless your bike generated an additional 4.2W per kilo for the top line watts the body was not...in that case the bike would have to generate an addition 32W or so. I guess you'd have to get Fabian Cancellara's bike for that and his on board battery to power his motor would need to store 605 kilojoules of energy (actually it would have to store a lot more because no battery system converts to mechanical power at 100%).....yes, I am an electrical engineering geek at heart.

Along these lines, I have found that skinnier is not always better for me for IM's. Seems like my best IM's are around 138-139 lbs. My best open marathons were 135-136 range (I am certain if I could have gotten down to 130 lbs when I was semi serious about marathons that would be my optimal marathon weight, but I may have died trying to get that light, so never did. My best XC ski racing is closer to 145 lbs. I think 150 lbs with a lot of upper body muscle would be even better, but I have always been scared to gain too much before tri season.

I'm 5'8" and KQ'ed at IM Coz in 2015 in M25-29; raced Kona this past year in M30-34. Coz weight was ~137, Kona weight was ~142. Bike weight is listed at 18lb. Haven't weighed it with bottles. Setup and positioning are pretty aero thanks to Steinmetz.

My bike splits in both Coz & Kona were pretty average. Coz was 5:18 & Kona was 5:21. My riding is definitely not strong as far as KQ'ing goes, but typically sets me up for a solid run. Coz was super windy and Kona had a 5' penalty. FTP going into Coz was something like 250 watts. Going into Kona it was 265-270. Again, far from an axe on the bike.

Coz I pushed about as hard as I could on the bike. Faded pretty badly in the last 30 mins. Still had a strong run though. Kona I held back big time hoping for a strong run. Didn't happen. Haven't figured that one out...

Bike file for Kona & Coz (scroll down a bit) here: http://www.lackofhustle.com/...ironman-world-champs

Good luck!

Thanks all - my FTP is ~260 at the moment. I'm getting a new fit and wanted to see if it would help. My last IM bike was CdA at around 6hours so I am probably doing something wrong 🙂.

And my other big takeaway is I need to keep working on my run. Hopefully I'll be in position in a couple years.

I'm not sure why you always talk about 'top line watts' and you being too skinny/small to generate much. There are plenty of sub 65kg pro cyclists who would crush the top ironman bike guys in a 180km TT.

Oh boy....

Post a picture of your position... I don't think FTP is the issue.

Maurice

I am 175cm and 62kg with FTP ~285w and got Kona last year. Like what had been mentioned on here before, Kona is a fair bit of a draft fest, so FTP isn't the be all and end all.

Yeah, I figure it is like 70.3 worlds (had some good roll down luck there). But getting there is the sticking point...

I'll also post a pic of position after [edit] Jim & I dial it in.

I suspect either you have a really terrible position on the bike or your FTP testing protocol is flawed. How about posting a race photo and description of your FTP test, including power meter used.

Edit: posting a photo of a new position that Dan gives you won't help people to diagnose why you rode 6 hours in the past...

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Ed O'Malley
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My position sucks - I'm working with Jim at Ero to make it better on my new bike this year.

Protocol was 95% of NP on 10mi flat on computrainer with perf pro studio. It tends to be higher outside, hence the "ish"...

Say for example you hold 170-180W @ CDA then go 6 hours...that is an issue,

as Dev stated before he is going 5:30 or so at Whistler on what he admits is not "not the best CDA"

I *might* have better CDA tested at .229 but Dev is a bit lighter and a bit *crazier* on the downhills. We both ended up with 5:30 or so....IIRC I was at 265 ftp, tested on my inside trainer but don't race with power.

CDA depending is about 5-15min easier than Whistler.

2c

NP for CdA was 172 - avg was 157 (the return was crazy fast with low power due to wind).

Avg is probably a problem...

Unfortunately mate there is no short cuts to go from 6 to 5 hr IM , you need to do this Bike set 3x1year of 400-600kpw with varied speeds and distances .

Wouldn't worry about bike (although hope it is half decent regardless of watts) and assuming you can swim.

Given you sound like spaghetti frame, if your run is not your strength you're probably screwed. I assume it is your strength so make that count and don't rely on your bike to get you there.

You have to rely on your bike. You're not allowed use a car!

Actually, in this case there may very well be a "shortcut" because he's 130lbs with a 260W FTP. ~5hr bike split is totally reasonable with that power:weight. As others have said, there are likely pretty massive gains to be made from position and equipment. What tires and wheels does he run, how much crap is hanging off the bike, aero helmet? There HAS to be some significant factors at play here aside from fitness.

Yep, as others have said, something going on. I'm not an expert but ran thru BBS with130 lbs and 172NP and you should be doing CDA in 5:25. That is with a cda of .265. To hit 6:00 your cda would need to be .383. You mentioned wind, were you sitting up a bunch going uphill into the wind?? How heavy is your bike?

Well if you have the genetics to generate 6W per kilo, then sure a 62 kilo athlete can produce 370 top line watts. But the reality, is that there are waaaaaay more people who can produce 3.5-4W per kilo than those who can produce 6W per kilo....so it's easier (statistically) to be a 100 kilo athletes and produce 370W than a 62 kilo athlete and generate 370 W. The reason small pros can generate massive watts is because they are genetic outliers. If we want to focus the discssion on genetic outliers, then that's fine, but we're talking about guys just trying to KQ. That's around 10% of the field or so. If we're talking 62 kilo guys with 350W FTP's were getting beyond Josh Amberger to Javier Gomez and beyond. This is not the KQ category of age groupers....so yes, of course there are some small light athlete who do produce massive watts, but they have pro genetics and even inside the pros, generally the bigger guys will have faster bike splits unless we're talking courses like Lanzarote or you're talking about Josh Amberger's aero position

I believe wind explains the disconnect. I also did CDA in 6 hours last summer and that included a 22+ minute split on the uphill upwind section on the second lap. Hard to stay aero when you're cranking to go 13 MPH. Without such brutal wind, I think I would've gone 5:35-5:40.

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2017 races: St. George 70.3 May 6 | Madison 70.3 June 11 | IM Zurich July 30 | Chicago Marathon October 8

Hi - when I Kona qualified my FTP was c248w (1hr watts not 20mins). Weight was 59.5kg. Course was Ironman Wales so hilly but suits a guy like me. Bike weight was around 8kg with bottles.

Hope this helps.

Chris.