You're lazy. I would love to spend all day, but I have a crazy workday (really). Here is some:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/
http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/do-illegal-immigrants-actually-hurt-the-us-economy.html




There are literally hundreds of others, all across the spectrum (the conservative Heritage Foundation calculates ~7B/year). If you quibble with this one article, (or completely disagree), give me one that most nearly matches your viewpoint. Fair is fair.


The best way to collect more (if that is what you want) is to have immigration reform which creates a larger scale guest worker program and some viable pathway to citizenship.

Which would all be true if the EO said "make public a comprehensive list of jurisdictions that ignored or failed to honor any detainers with respect to aliens that it arrested on suspicion of committing a criminal act and the criminal act that such alien was suspected of committing (noting that such alien has not been tried or afforded due process so, y'know, take it for what it's worth)"

However, as you know because you posted it, that's not what the EO said at all. The EO says "make public a comprehensive list of criminal actions committed by aliens and any jurisdiction that ignored or otherwise failed to honor any detainers with respect to such aliens."

The wording requires someone to make a pre-trial judgement about whether a crime has been committed for the list to have any value. That violates due process.

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"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

The wording requires someone to make a pre-trial judgement about whether a crime has been committed for the list to have any value. That violates due process.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't even list the name of the offender.

NY arrests a guy for shoplifting, refuses to hold the guy for 2 days so ICE can get hold of him. ICE publishes list, says NY refused to detain a non-citizen arrested for shoplifting. There's no due process issue there. Zippo.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Hmmm, underlining didn't work.

The EO says "******make public a comprehensive list of criminal actions committed by aliens****** AND any jurisdiction that ignored or otherwise failed to honor any detainers with respect to such aliens."

Whether names are included doesn't matter.

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"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

Because they vote Team Donkey.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

 

The EO says "******make public a comprehensive list of criminal actions committed by aliens****** AND any jurisdiction that ignored or otherwise failed to honor any detainers with respect to such aliens."

OK. And still, so what? There remains absolutely no due process issue anywhere near this.

NYPD arrests 100 aliens this week, ICE requests that they detain all 100 aliens. NYPD detains 97 of them because the crimes they were arrested for are on your list. NYPD refuses to detain the other 3.

ICE publishes a list of all the crimes those 100 aliens were arrested for, and also points out that NYPD refused to detain 3 of them for immigration enforcement.

Zero due process involved in any of that.

I *think* what you're objecting to is publicizing the crimes that aliens are arrested for. I don't think I'm going to join your concern there- it sounds like you just want to suppress information.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Is that you Don?

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

My last response, I can't help you read. However much you want ti to, it doesn't say "crimes they were arrested for" or "crimes they were suspected of having committed" it says "criminal actions committed."

p.s. when people ask me if it's melodramatic to call these times Orwellian, I'll remember this thread.

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"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

However much you want ti to, it doesn't say "crimes they were arrested for" or "crimes they were suspected of having committed" it says "criminal actions committed."

How do you think they're going to compile the list otherwise? Serious question. You think Homeland Security is just going to make up numbers out of thin air, unconnected to any reality whatsoever?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Well, they do ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Really then how is it a violation of due process?[/quote]
Why don't you start by telling me how a government publishes an accurate WEEKLY list of criminal actions that have been committed by illegal immigrants without making any assumptions about what actions took place, who took them and whether they were criminal. Of course, they can't. So this list will either be meaningless drivel, will be a constantly updated list of crimes that have now been established as occurring some time in the distant past or will clearly violate almost every element of procedural due process.[/quote]
I asked you first. How, with specificity, is due process violated?

Are we still talking illegal immigrants voting illegally? If so, no. Unless you have unearthed new evidence you would like to provide.

If we are talking about legal immigrants and their families, sure.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Again how is due process violated? Is it a due process violation to state a murder was gang related? What about Chicago's murders that are released?

But how do you know a murder was committed? How do you know a gang member committed it? Just because you arrested someone for murder, and found that they were in a gang? What is this, 1984?

It's ridiculous. It's not that hard to compile a reasonably accurate list, and even if it was, it has absolutely nothing to do with due process.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Please. We prefer illegal alien.

Yep. I'll get scolded for that.

Sorry, it's no fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_61hzuGGJX0

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

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I have a problem with it, though not for the reasons you suggest. My problem is that there is an excess of workers competing at the bottom rungs, and native blacks and Hispanics are getting fucked hard by our happy "system" of, at best, turning a blind eye to the illegal person taking jobs that otherwise would be up for grabs. There's no helping most of these folks up the ladder if they can't get on the ladder to begin with, there's a hell of a lot less hope, forget expectation, of getting up and out of poverty for whole swaths of US born kids, higher unemployment rates in these groups, more malaise, anger, crime, etc. Yeah, I have a problem with illegal immigration.
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I read so much of Ken's stuff, that I was ready to posit the question of he and others here of what is the "right" amount of illegal immigration? Given what he generally writes. I could not tell if he had any problem at al with illegal immigration, so it was nice to see that he at least sees a problem that should be addressed. BTW, plenty of libertarians are no borders types, and don't think there should be a such thing as an "illegal" immigrant.

They went back to their country of origin and began the process.

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

This radical right winger disagrees with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3yesvvYEvs

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Suffer Well.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/...f-immigrants-9096031

Of course he is, he is a republican. haha. Just wanted to get that out there before somebody else does.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

You honestly think that blacks and Hispanics are banging down the door to get jobs that pay less than minimum wage and no benefits? Why do you think they are hiring illegal immigrants?

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

They are hiring illegal immigrants because they can without repercussions.

Let me ask you. Do you support a minimum wage?

Don't get me wrong, illegal immigration isn't really an issue to me much anymore. But I laugh at people who argue illegals do jobs that americans won't do, but then argue for a minimum wage. Here is why?

Americans will do those jobs if they paid what the market absent illegal labor would do it for. When I lost my job a few years back, I was willing to clean bathrooms if that's what it took to feed my family. Absent illegal labor, the job market would have to appropriately pay wages the labor market believes is fair and just compensation. Certainly more than minimum wage, maybe even benefits.

I have referred to this in the past. But when I used to audit Marriott hotels this question often came up. A few years back, the meat processing and packing industry, another job "americans won't do" suffered some high profile ICE raids that sent a lot of illegal labor underground nation wide. Hotels in Florida and California suffered a housekeeping labor shortage. During my audit of HR I asked why? That was the explanation I was given. Funny considering we didn't hire illegal labor (another discussion), but I followed up with another question. Are our competitors running into the same issue? I was often told no. Hilton, Starwood, whoever was upping their hourly wage rate a buck or two (about 13 at the time) to attract American labor. I asked why we weren't. Budget didn't allow.

Do I have to explain this further? These specific Marriott hotels decided they would wait out the illegal labor shortage until prices returned to the levels they budgeted for. While our competitors upped the rate and got the available labor that was legal. Had Marriott upped the rate, don't you think we would have attracted some of that housekeeping labor? Had we offered more, certainly, maybe people doing other minimum wage work at say retail might have gone to housekeeping.

Back to the ICE raids on the beef processors and packers. Those ice raids shut down several plants for a few days. The result was to raise the wage by a couple of bucks and they had lines of locals, many unemployed applying for these jobs "americans wouldn't do".

So cut the crap. There aren't any jobs "americans won't do". There are jobs which americans won't do at the wages that companies with the assistance of gov't are willing to and can pay with the assistance of illegal labor.

Solution seems simple to me. Get rid of the minimum wage, and target employers who hire illegal labor with heavy fines. Allow work visa's for labor markets we truly are short in, like highly technical fields. There is no reason that HB1 visa's should be used for low skilled labor. All that means is it is cheaper for said company to not only pay for labor but the red tape cost of acquiring such visas.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden