I think the very best part about Trump being elected is that it might awaken people to dangers of government power.

Trump is apparently going to use another Executive Order to get the government started on building a wall. If true, maybe it will awaken people to the dangers of government power despite the lack of concern when Obama was doing the same.

Are we talking about prosecuting yahoos on the internet or even scientists who are climate change deniers or were they talking about going after companies that intentionally misled people because it would be bad for their business if climate change were true?

Doesn't seem that different than the trouble big tobacco got in for denying the link between smoking and cancer when it was clear they knew otherwise. Whereas I'm sure no where has any dimwit been prosecuted because they don't think smoking causes cancer.

Later. Short answer is that people at CARB and CalEPA have the desire and are trying figure how to punish people financially and/or criminally, through the regulatory process, for putting forth views that contradict AGW orthodoxy.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

One thing that I'm finding interesting in the early going of his presidency is that he's actually carrying out many of the promises he had on the campaign trail. At various points, repeatedly, he talked about his pro-life stance and bringing back the Hyde amendment and Mexico City gag rule. He may not have had specifics on the EPA but he promised a massive overhaul and huge reduction in regulations; he also doesn't believe in AGW--or at least that's his public stance--and so it makes sense that he'd move for the EPA to drastically cut down on AGW-related focus/research. These were things he talked about, over and over, during his campaign.

And so now he's doing what he promised to do. I think where it gets problematic is in how he's doing it, through EO's. With an agency like the EPA that's really all he has to do, right--the laws on the book dictate the role of the EPA but not their budget or their focus, Trump can order them to change that and he can work with Congress to slash their budget (if he chooses).

TL;DR Trump is doing a LOT of what he promised on the campaign trail, but for many--myself included, in many respects--it's the manner in which he's doing it that has me worried, apart from the specific goals of those changes.

it doesn't seem like a difficult thing to grasp yet here are all the usual suspects unable to grasp it.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

This. The way some of these guys talk makes me feel like they think America today is on par with Germany in the 30's.

Are you guys considering opening up the gas chambers and crematoriums for climate deniers?

That would be something.... Burning climate deniers.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

That's not who they are prosecuting, and you know it. Nobody can be prosecuted merely for denying climate change, much as nobody can be prosecuted merely for having brown hair. It's when the denial takes the form of fraud that prosecution is called for. Like a company something that is in direct contradiction of its own internal data.

Show us any evidence that mere denial is subject to prosecution by these AGs.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

At this point it really doesn't matter. The guy in charge does not believe in AGW, he doesn't care about it and won't be spending any gov;t money on it. Already telling the EPA to shut down that part of the website and freeze all grants into this topic. ( Not a good time to be an EPA scientist living off the gov't tax dollar) Seems pretty clear he doesn't care about it. We will see if the C02 levels increase that much in the next 8 years unfettered by any attempts of the US to make massive changes to prevent same.

The guy has come out swinging. Keeping his promises on abortion, climate, the wall etc. Also plans to have a federal right to carry and get rid of limitations on magazines and other gun bans.

Olberman and other libs are getting so unhinged one of them may have a coronary on air soon.

If Trump were freezing out any publication (social media or otherwise) from all departments, or from those departments that have published against the prospective policy position of the department, I could understand that. But the departments that have been frozen in this way are exactly the ones that promote science that counters Trump's erroneous views on science. That is the troubling aspect of these actions.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Since it seems to be too difficult for you to use Google, here is what Trispoke was talking about:



http://www.cnsnews.com/...imate-change-deniers

I think where it gets problematic is in how he's doing it, through EO's. With an agency like the EPA that's really all he has to do, right--the laws on the book dictate the role of the EPA but not their budget or their focus,

So what's problematic about the executive orders, then?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Gag order sounds kind of crazy, but I would assume it means no media pressers until appropriate staff is in place. Many of these organization remain under control of Obama appointed bureaucrats. You can't have every single person willing to talk to a camera going off the reservation. Most depts, bureaus, agencies, etc. have media designees and are the sole person authorized to discuss official business with the media. What we are seeing are a bunch of leaks at all levels. People get fired for that in pretty much any organization. I was listening to the press pool yesterday and somebody called about that, and Julie Mason who was a longtime WH correspondent and head of the WH correspondents association said that there isn't a "gag" or "media blackout". It's just a matter of the proper people being put in place to the correct info is released.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Kenny, don't you work for AT&T? If so, why not hop on their official social media site and tweet out a statement saying Verizon has far better coverage. Keep tweeting it out after the CEO of your company states that you need to stop. How long do you think you would have a job? But hey, it is a "police" state to the deranged Trump haters. It is going to be a long, very long 4 years. Oh, and if the left keep it up that 4 years will turn into 8 years pretty quickly.

What are the aims and goals of the EPA? Air, land and water regulations to make sure our environment is clean and people and companies aren't dirtying it. There's really nothing - that I know of - that directs the EPA to conduct climate change research and push an AGW agenda, beyond any EO's issued by past Presidents.

Trump does not believe in the science, and he campaigned as such. He won, and so he'll shift the focus of agencies away from climate change research. It's up to Congress to push laws that will further climate change research and regulations - at least using public funds.

Whether or not you agree with it, our government will likely fund far, far less climate change research and will probably roll back some regulatory requirements - the coal industry has been decimated the past eight years, I'd expect many of Obama's coal regulations to be rolled back/modified as an example - that fly in the face of AGW proponents' aims and goals. We can argue about the merits of this path but I do think it's something that Trump ran on, and that he's within his right to push through various agency EO's.

I was responding to "you wouldn't be surprised" and "might have been "gagged" under Obama".

Perhaps you can look up "truthiness".

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"Go yell at an M&M"

You mean this?

"Lynch is apparently following in the footsteps of California Attorney General Kamala Harris and New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, both of whom have opened up investigations of ExxonMobil for allegedly lying to the public and their shareholders about climate change."

And "They want to investigate and prosecute corporations and individuals for their opinions on an unproven scientific theory"?

Yeah, they understand science.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

No, I'm coming around to it...just responded to Ken, because I've thought it through a bit more and it's not striking me as problematic.

Now, I do think it's important to understand the impacts we're having on the environment, on our climate, and determining long-range impacts. So I think the actions are worrisome, and I'd hope that we continue to fund research into not only the impacts of AGW but also solutions, both long-term and short-term. But I now believe, after thinking more about it, that Trump is by no means overstepping the boundaries of what his job entails.

Pretty much where I'm at right now.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Or as the President would put it, "until we figure out what the hell is going on."

If it's a temporary measure to rein in the backlash on an inappropriate forum, I'm fine with it. But it had better be temporary and not indicative of a pro-Trump-agenda-only format to follow.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

1. Trispoke didn't make the ignorant, misleading, (#fakenews) statement. Dirtfighter did

2. Nothing in that article, or the actual truth, supports a statement that Obama put a gag order on scientists that disagree with AGW.

It could be reversed in 4 or 8 years.

Congress doesn't seem to want to put up a wall. So if this is built through executive fiat, it's completion and maintenance can be in jeopardy.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

It could be reversed in 4 or 8 years.

Sure. That isn't a problem, that's just the way it works.


Congress doesn't seem to want to put up a wall. So if this is built through executive fiat, it's completion and maintenance can be in jeopardy.

I read that his executive order will reference existing laws passed by Congress to build a wall. Not sure how directly they actually apply, and more to the point, I'm not sure whether building a wall requires Congress to pass a law. I'm open to argument here, but it seems like it's something that could very well fall under the executive purview.

Whether Congress or a future president will maintain the wall in the future is another question.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."