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Re: Anyone ditch their power meter and just ride by feel/RPE now? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
AutomaticJack wrote:
My N=1 says that your FTP will drop.


Most of my training... probably 80% of it will still be with power since I have the Neo.

I do 90% of my training on a smart trainer inside and the extra 10% I do with friends outside are mostly easy rides that I go by feel. I do record the power for the outdoor rides but don't look at it while riding.

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Re: Anyone ditch their power meter and just ride by feel/RPE now? [Joshawa] [ In reply to ]
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Every time I feel that I have feel for my diet and I have it dialed in good enough to get off MyFitnessPal, I gain weight.

I think you will find out that the same will happen without the pm
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Re: Anyone ditch their power meter and just ride by feel/RPE now? [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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I really need to get that little directional EMP generator to work until next IM Hawaii...on the climb up to Hawi may be perfect location for it.




rubik wrote:
Pretty much the opposite. The couple of times my PM battery has died, I've just turned around and gone home.

No power, no ride.
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Re: Anyone ditch their power meter and just ride by feel/RPE now? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe I have something I like to call 'muscle memory'...
I learned/memorized how hard (by feel) I can go (should be going) for a given RPE from second one I start an interval of define length.

Nah, that is just BS.... nothing to see here.


exxxviii wrote:
IvarAlmere wrote:
Whenever I do intervals I can clearly see that after times pass my PE is not consistent with my power output. So it feels as if i keep an consistent PE, but the wattage's are slowly dropping. Maybe this is something that can be learned over time, but for now I'm sticking with my power meter.

^THIS!

When I do hard intervals (>115% FTE) that are 2 - 3 minutes long at a target power level, I can see my HR steadily climbing through the interval. It probably takes 20 seconds for my HR to get to the mostly stable level. But then it will climb slightly until the end of the interval. So, if I trained by RPE or HR, I would start strong and then gradually reduce power output through the interval. Power helps keep you focused for maximum benefit workouts.

The other massively overlooked benefit of power is an absolute measure of progress and indexing workouts to your current abilities. It may be imperfect, but doing an FTP test and then following a workout plan that has intervals structured to your FTP is pretty awesome. Then, you can measure, with high confidence, how your body is responding to the training plan. This is almost impossible without a PM.
Last edited by: windschatten: Jan 25, 17 23:56
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Re: Anyone ditch their power meter and just ride by feel/RPE now? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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I see power as just one input to the whole performance equation. Having said that it is my primary focus when training, but also like to take account of what is happening with RPE and then HR last. When racing I go by RPE first, then HR, then I use power but only as a ceiling or cap number. When I'm riding I can usually pick the power I'm putting down at any given time in a ride within 10 watts or so, so my RPE is pretty dialed in after a number of years.

I guess my approach when racing comes from my bike racing background. I hardly ever look at power in a bike race, you just racethe race. The only time I would look at power for a bike race is after it's finished.
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Re: Anyone ditch their power meter and just ride by feel/RPE now? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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I've never used a power meter. Been thinking of getting one but justifying the cost/benefit as an exercise physiologist is just hard. Not that power isn't useful but RPE and HR are more than adequate. As someone who's a professional in the exercise field I would use power to evaluate rides on the trainer, new positions, and new equipment not so much for in field training. I'm also with you about riding "free" and it's something we addressed in school, both from a performance and wellness standpoint. From a performance standpoint equipment breaks, and you need to be able to perform without reading an LCD screen. Also sometimes we get caught in numbers and might be a little stronger than we think and the tech is holding us back. Finally, especially in the off season go tech free and just enjoy the ride. I'll even do that during the season now and again. Remember what got you going in the first place and smile.

I still lapped everyone on the couch!
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Re: Anyone ditch their power meter and just ride by feel/RPE now? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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I have decided to sell my power meter.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Anyone ditch their power meter and just ride by feel/RPE now? [rock] [ In reply to ]
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rock wrote:
I see power as just one input to the whole performance equation. Having said that it is my primary focus when training, but also like to take account of what is happening with RPE and then HR last. When racing I go by RPE first, then HR, then I use power but only as a ceiling or cap number. When I'm riding I can usually pick the power I'm putting down at any given time in a ride within 10 watts or so, so my RPE is pretty dialed in after a number of years.

I guess my approach when racing comes from my bike racing background. I hardly ever look at power in a bike race, you just race the race. The only time I would look at power for a bike race is after it's finished.

At the Augusta 70.3 this past year I didn't look at my power at all during the race and my guesstimate of the NP was within 3 watts of actual. So my RPE is pretty dialed in as well.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Anyone ditch their power meter and just ride by feel/RPE now? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
rock wrote:
I see power as just one input to the whole performance equation. Having said that it is my primary focus when training, but also like to take account of what is happening with RPE and then HR last. When racing I go by RPE first, then HR, then I use power but only as a ceiling or cap number. When I'm riding I can usually pick the power I'm putting down at any given time in a ride within 10 watts or so, so my RPE is pretty dialed in after a number of years.

I guess my approach when racing comes from my bike racing background. I hardly ever look at power in a bike race, you just race the race. The only time I would look at power for a bike race is after it's finished.


At the Augusta 70.3 this past year I didn't look at my power at all during the race and my guesstimate of the NP was within 3 watts of actual. So my RPE is pretty dialed in as well.

Just a general question. Do you look at the pace clock for every swim set or go to the track for every run (or as a minimum, use a GPS for every run and measure every 25m split time ?). If not, you don't need a power meter in every workout. For the life of me, I can't understand why people are so worried about measuring in detail every workout they do. I find "meters" in every sport, really useful when I want to go moderately to very hard, or if I want to go super easy and cap it (like easier than IM pace capping). Everything from IM pace to just under half IM pace in training, seems like day in day out brute aggregation mileage to build up the base and keeping it at conversational effort or at most just a touch above and I don't need to measure anything. Your experience in the half IM being within 3W seems to reinforce that for me.
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Re: Anyone ditch their power meter and just ride by feel/RPE now? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
rock wrote:
I see power as just one input to the whole performance equation. Having said that it is my primary focus when training, but also like to take account of what is happening with RPE and then HR last. When racing I go by RPE first, then HR, then I use power but only as a ceiling or cap number. When I'm riding I can usually pick the power I'm putting down at any given time in a ride within 10 watts or so, so my RPE is pretty dialed in after a number of years.

I guess my approach when racing comes from my bike racing background. I hardly ever look at power in a bike race, you just race the race. The only time I would look at power for a bike race is after it's finished.


At the Augusta 70.3 this past year I didn't look at my power at all during the race and my guesstimate of the NP was within 3 watts of actual. So my RPE is pretty dialed in as well.


Just a general question. Do you look at the pace clock for every swim set or go to the track for every run (or as a minimum, use a GPS for every run and measure every 25m split time ?). If not, you don't need a power meter in every workout. For the life of me, I can't understand why people are so worried about measuring in detail every workout they do. I find "meters" in every sport, really useful when I want to go moderately to very hard, or if I want to go super easy and cap it (like easier than IM pace capping). Everything from IM pace to just under half IM pace in training, seems like day in day out brute aggregation mileage to build up the base and keeping it at conversational effort or at most just a touch above and I don't need to measure anything. Your experience in the half IM being within 3W seems to reinforce that for me.

I don't look at pacing much at all for anything. When my watch beeps for an autolap every mile I might glance down to see what the time was but I won't really adjust anything based off that. Same with the pool. I might glance at the time after I finish an interval or set but it's basically referential. I do wear my GPS watch on every run so that I know how long and how far but I'm not really concerned with how fast. I'm only racing the 70.3 distance now so I'm not concerned about top end speed. If I were a short course guy I might pay much more attention to the clock.

During a race I need to keep tabs on my run pacing and HR because I either run too fast early on or I tend to lollygag later. So clockwatching keeps me in check there.

I've also become far less serious about racing. I turned the competitive switch off a couple of years ago and I haven't been able to turn it back on. I'm hoping to get back to worrying about PR's at some point this year but I have done exactly two swims, two bikes, and two runs since Cartagena and I have the Galveston 70.3 coming in about 9-10 weeks. So I'm clearly not taking that race seriously.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Anyone ditch their power meter and just ride by feel/RPE now? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Do you look at the pace clock for every swim set or go to the track for every run (or as a minimum, use a GPS for every run and measure every 25m split time ?). If not, you don't need a power meter in every workout.
These are apples and oranges... You are comparing the use of real-time power as a real-time guide on a training ride to a retroactive view of performance in the other events. I think of a bike PM as a virtual partner that is pushing me during training rides, and the goals set during my workouts and overall plan are based on my measured ability, and those goals and plans are designed to improve my measured ability. So, think of the analogy a little differently...

What if in the pool or on a run, you could have done a test to identify your all-out speed. And, then, what if you could have a long term training plan with individual workouts and intervals designed to improve your all-out speed. Then, what if in the pool or on the run, you could have a virtual partner swimming or running next to you to at the exact pace you should maintain for that interval to build your all-out speed. This is virtually impossible in the pool. It is kind of possible on runs, if you normalize for conditions or use a power meter like the Stryd.

The point is that power in bike training helps maximize every moment of a workout toward improving overall performance. There really is no comparable equivalent for swimming or running yet. Now, bike power during a race is a totally different thing. For a road race or critirium, IMHO, power is less relevant, because you basically have to give whatever is necessary during the race as situations develop. But in a TT, you can use power to maintain a maximally efficient level of overall output during the extended ride. But, you may be able to be just as effective without power if you monitor RPE or HR (or both).
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Re: Anyone ditch their power meter and just ride by feel/RPE now? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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In the same boat here in a way. I've been using PM(bike) and Garmin(run) for a long time. It has gotten to the point where it seems like every w.o. has to be about some number or metric. It's taken a lot of the fun out of training. I'm really considering ditching it all. But then in the back of my mind I'm still thinking if I'm not hammering the intervals, etc... then what's the point of the workout.
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Re: Anyone ditch their power meter and just ride by feel/RPE now? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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I would say that it depends on what kind of a rider you are and how tuned in to rpe you are.
Riders who tend to spike their power too hard or ride the 1st part of a ride/race too hard could certainly benefit from a powermeter- but only if they heed what the powermeter is showing.
Other than that rpe can be effective.
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Re: Anyone ditch their power meter and just ride by feel/RPE now? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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I have no problem running and swimming by feel but I rely heavily on my power meter on the bike. It helps to keep me in check, especially this time of year. It reminds me to keep things in check.
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