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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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Is test anxiety unique to multiple choice tests?

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
But aren't "classroom settings" suppose to prepare people for "real life" scenarios?

Not in many cases. Classroom settings are supposed to get a student to learn whatever set of desired knowledge the course covers. That course may or may not be geared toward real life practical application. When you develop a course curriculum, you would typically identify whether or not application is an objective of the course, and test real life application through practical exercises, rather than through written tests. Nobody is likely to have to spew out the names, facts, and dates associated with the Peloponnesian War in the space of 15 minutes, in any real life application. So there might be room to deviate from a written exam format and still evaluate whether the student gained the required knowledge.

That said, most testing methods employed in classes work fairly well across most of the population. The exceptions seem generally rare, and "Boy I get nervous before tests, mostly because I didn't do the homework all semester" isn't really a legitimate reason for the student to require an alternate testing method or multiple shots at a test.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
Is test anxiety unique to multiple choice tests?

No. And of course, if the course you're taking is one that is designed to teach real world practical application of skills under pressure, then it's reasonable to fail a student if they can't meet those objectives. Lots of courses aren't like that, however.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
Duffy wrote:
Is test anxiety unique to multiple choice tests?

No. And of course, if the course you're taking is one that is designed to teach real world practical application of skills under pressure, then it's reasonable to fail a student if they can't meet those objectives. Lots of courses aren't like that, however.

Yes, and I said as much in previous posts.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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racin_rusty wrote:
Student profile
Young Adult <30 years old
2nd year apprenticeship,
claimed to achieve 85-90% on practice exams,
Employed in same trade as myself,
Work environment is very demanding, requires attention to detail and good communication skills.

See all of Duffy's posts. In this instance, I agree with most everything he has stated.
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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racin_rusty wrote:
Student profile
Young Adult <30 years old
2nd year apprenticeship,
claimed to achieve 85-90% on practice exams,
Employed in same trade as myself,
Work environment is very demanding, requires attention to detail and good communication skills.


So are you just looking for general thoughts, or is there a specific question you have in mind?

Are you asking if the student should be given another chance? If so, that depends on a whole host of factors. Are you authorized to prevent him from taking it again? Has he demonstrated proficiency during his apprenticeship that would mitigate the test failures? Do you know him well and does he seem legit, or like a whiny slacker? Is the test a good indicator of potential performance, or is it just a check in the box? Etc.

If you're just venting about something that seems screwed up, I can sympathize. When I was an instructor, we had a saying that our school was a pump, not a filter. We were there to get people through, not to weed them out. I had a kid (early 20s) take a test on the same subject material 9 times. We had 4 versions of the test, so he took and failed each version twice before passing the A version on his third try. We just weren't allowed to fail him on the course. He should never have moved on, but sometimes that's the way it is.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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Honestly I'm pretty frustrated, my trade isn't "designated" aka mandatory. As a result the apprentice's performance isn't necessarily evaluated by a journeyman. A number of conversations with the individual in question has lead me to believe that they don't understand the course material to the standard expected. So here I have this person working with me, clearly not up to standard getting repeated do-overs. IMO it's bringing down the standard of the trade.


Interestingly, when I earned my Journeyman's certification the interprovincial qualification wasn't available because there wasn't a sufficient number of provinces running the apprenticeship to offer the Red Seal certification. Out of curiosity I applied for and was approved to write the interprovincial exam. I wanted to see if I was missing something that the apprentice was having trouble with. After 28 years away from school. I wrote on Wednesday and passed without problems.
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
But isn't part of the reason for testing is to determine who is capable of performing on demand within a certain criteria?

If the job requires them to take a test within a certain time limit and that they might fail the test, then yes.


By and large, most people who know the material will do well on tests. Some of problems with testing. It doesn't mean they will be bad at putting out fires, teaching english, or repairing your car.


But yes, most people who do poorly on tests is a matter of them not knowing the material.


FWIW, I thought the way you do at one time. My experiences both in teaching and at my current job have changed my opinions.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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racin_rusty wrote:
Honestly I'm pretty frustrated, my trade isn't "designated" aka mandatory. As a result the apprentice's performance isn't necessarily evaluated by a journeyman. A number of conversations with the individual in question has lead me to believe that they don't understand the course material to the standard expected. So here I have this person working with me, clearly not up to standard getting repeated do-overs. IMO it's bringing down the standard of the trade.


Interestingly, when I earned my Journeyman's certification the interprovincial qualification wasn't available because there wasn't a sufficient number of provinces running the apprenticeship to offer the Red Seal certification. Out of curiosity I applied for and was approved to write the interprovincial exam. I wanted to see if I was missing something that the apprentice was having trouble with. After 28 years away from school. I wrote on Wednesday and passed without problems.

So I guess my question would be, are you in a position to do anything about it, or is it just frustrating?

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
If you're just venting about something that seems screwed up, I can sympathize. When I was an instructor, we had a saying that our school was a pump, not a filter. We were there to get people through, not to weed them out. I had a kid (early 20s) take a test on the same subject material 9 times. We had 4 versions of the test, so he took and failed each version twice before passing the A version on his third try. We just weren't allowed to fail him on the course. He should never have moved on, but sometimes that's the way it is.

Military or ciivlian ?

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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racin_rusty wrote:
Honestly I'm pretty frustrated, my trade isn't "designated" aka mandatory. As a result the apprentice's performance isn't necessarily evaluated by a journeyman. A number of conversations with the individual in question has lead me to believe that they don't understand the course material to the standard expected. So here I have this person working with me, clearly not up to standard getting repeated do-overs. IMO it's bringing down the standard of the trade.


Interestingly, when I earned my Journeyman's certification the interprovincial qualification wasn't available because there wasn't a sufficient number of provinces running the apprenticeship to offer the Red Seal certification. Out of curiosity I applied for and was approved to write the interprovincial exam. I wanted to see if I was missing something that the apprentice was having trouble with. After 28 years away from school. I wrote on Wednesday and passed without problems.

I think there is a clear difference between this being pre-secondary education and post-secondary. Not all people are fit to do all jobs. Is passing this test preventing this person from moving forward? Are they able to come back to it after gaining more experience? Could this possibly open you/him/others to liability concerns?
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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Technically a journeyman should be in charge of apprentices. Legally in our specific trade that's not necessary and in this case the self appointed apprentice supervisor isn't qualified and doesn't have the background to evaluate apprentice performances. So it's entirely a matter of frustration.
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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racin_rusty wrote:
Technically a journeyman should be in charge of apprentices. Legally in our specific trade that's not necessary and in this case the self appointed apprentice supervisor isn't qualified and doesn't have the background to evaluate apprentice performances. So it's entirely a matter of frustration.

Like I said, I can sympathize. It sucks.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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BarryP wrote:
Quote:
But isn't part of the reason for testing is to determine who is capable of performing on demand within a certain criteria?

If the job requires them to take a test within a certain time limit and that they might fail the test, then yes.


By and large, most people who know the material will do well on tests. Some of problems with testing. It doesn't mean they will be bad at putting out fires, teaching english, or repairing your car.


But yes, most people who do poorly on tests is a matter of them not knowing the material.


FWIW, I thought the way you do at one time. My experiences both in teaching and at my current job have changed my opinions.

Like I said earlier, Mrs. Duffy got extra time on tests in college and grad school (was. Much in the way of tests in grad school though) due to dyslexia. It's fairly straight forward to test objectively for that condition.

"Test anxiety" just seems too flimsy to me. I get nervous when I take tests. I take several different tests, each every two years, to renew a ridiculous amount of certifications I must carry to do my work. I know the material inside and out, have never "studied" for these test and pass them within 15 -20 minutes (given 90 minutes to complete most of them) every time.

Still, I'm pretty nervous going into it because a lot is riding on me passing these exams. "Test anxiety" seems normal to me. If I didn't know the material my anxiety level would be heightened to what could be considered pathological. But it's my fault.

Also, like I said, if you're being tested on the taxonomy of fossilized winged tree nuts from dinosaur times I really dont care.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Like was said, there is a difference between nervousness and true anxiety.

For a true anxiety case you can talk to someone and they can answer any question you ask them on a topic. Then you tell them they have to take a test on a topic and they lock up and can't answer anything. They spend the whole time allotted for the test just staring at the first question. They might write down a bunch of gibberish at the end in a panic. In this case those people would make fine paleontologists, but you wouldn't want them to be fighter pilots. It is different than dyslexia or other learning disorders where extra time puts them on more even footing.

So whether or not you waive the test and asses based on other techniques depends on the potential use of the certification or degree.

In Rusty's case it sounds like he has a poor performer (based on his assessments outside of the test) who is nervous taking the test.
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Re: Let's Play the Testing Anxiety Card... [torrey] [ In reply to ]
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I'm always extremely nervous, I daresay "anxious", whenever I have to take a test that I have not prepared for on a subject I do not know well. Conversely, the harder I study, the less anxious I am. I'm not going to go out on a limb and allege a causation here, but my personal information shows a high degree of correlation.

Although I always feel some nerves before tests, they do tend to settle down once the test itself begins and I know I'm acing it because I goddamn studied.
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