Which is fine - for you.

The evidence however suggests that the vast majority of long course Triathlon athletes do use all sorts of different methods for carrying nutrition and repair kits.

This bike gives them a solution. Also gives a solution for carrying wet weather gear as well. And once the trickle down versions are released they'll be available for many more people.

So Jan Frodeno is broke and slow on his Canyon with built in storage and bottle ?

Also Or, some of you will say you need disk brakes in which case I call BS because protour riders including "larger" sprinters are descending Hor Category Col descents on carbon clincher.

Dev, at Pro tour level that's BS, they're all on tubs. The only exception I can think of is Tony Martin in some of the flat TTs. At cyclo sportive level, in Alpine events carbon clincher failure is real and does happen, sometimes with very bad consequences. Heck, I've seen a DT carbon clincher rim fail under a larger rider (Euro large, not US large) while braking on a steep but short descent.

OK, I see your points and am glad to stand corrected that most of the protour guys are not on carbon clinchers and are on carbon tubulars.....but the usecase of big riders blowing up Carbon clinchers on steep cyclocross descents just plays into my point. How often in triathlon are you doing offroad descents on steep terrain? The answer is never ? Right? So why are we worrying about this use case for triathlon.

Can any of you guys point me to a single triathlon race where anyone has ever exploded the rim of a carbon clincher due to heat buildup. Please name me one instance and document it or bring the person on the forum to whom this happens. Training does not count because you don't NEED to ride carbon clincher deep rims in training....plenty of good Al rim clinchers for training use cases. So let's keep this to triathlon racing scenarios only to justify why the industry needs to go to disk braked carbon clinchers for triathlon racing steeds.

You seem to have forgotten why this discussion is even happening.

You asked, rather ignorantly, why a "rider only (no storage)" test was relevant. You were informed.

Again, maybe for you that is relevant. But for vast majority of people who race Iron distance events it's not.

A) we're not talking about integrated storage/hydration, we're talking about those who use aftermarket acesseories and tape.
B) this isn't about pros, they ride what they're paid to ride.

This bike gives them a solution. Also gives a solution for carrying wet weather gear as well. And once the trickle down versions are released they'll be available for many more people.

B) this isn't about pros, they ride what they're paid to ride.

Because you've now realised that hydration and storage doesn't have to make you slow.


You responded to this statement saying that these systems make you slow, obviously when done right they don't make you slow.

Actually, this thread is about pros and what they're paid to ride.

"Threads on Michi Weiss have NOT gone well in the past."

it's not a thread about michael weiss unless you make it one. it's a thread about an irrational hate for a technology that nobody is forcing anyone to buy, to the point where normally rational people are cherrypicking anecdotes to support the irrational hate to the exclusion of very OBVIOUS anecdotes that argue against their thesis.

over the last 15 years that this forum has been around we've seen this. nobody is forcing you to do a buy a specific kind of bike. or a specific kind of technology. or to enter a specific kind of race. the existence of draft-legal races does not ruin your no-draft experience. the existence of disc brake bikes does not ruin your rim brake experience. the existence of mixed-race or same-sex marriage does not ruin your traditional marriage experience.

if somebody made a rule outlawing the technology you want to use, then yes, i would argue. and i am arguing, because the hate for new technologies are so loud (disc brakes in particular) that the question of whether disc brakes will even be allowed in triathlon is being decided right now. it's really no different than the marriage issue, in my mind. people hate and fear change, or anything that isn't comfortable to them, to the point where they want to make sure NOBODY enjoys an experience other than the comfortable experience they enjoy in their comfortable homes.

this is exactly what i went through with wetsuits; and again with tri bikes optimized for aerobars. no different. and the reason triathlon suffers from time to time is because of this reticence to change, when the very thing that makes triathlon different from its constituent sports is that triathlon has historically always been a very malleable sport. we accepted wetsuits and aerobars and clipless pedals and hard shell helmets, oakley factory pilots, SRAM twist shifters, carbon wheels, clinchers tires, power meters, new and better rider positions, atypical crank lengths, and so many other new ideas when nobody else would.

the big problem with triathlon right now is that we've become cycling. we've become a mainstream activity. we aren't any longer at the pointy end of endurance sport, and hate and disdain for newness - to the point of making up stupid factless arguments - is emblematic of the thing we need to break out of.

What I've learned from this thread:
1.)That if I keep taping my chili dogs and my 12 gu packets to my top tube and basebar, that my P3 will be really slow and that a P5x will be a better choice aerodynamically.
2.)That Cervelo will be soon publishing a white paper telling me all of this.
3.)That my Zipp 404 carbon clinchers are going to explode soon and kill me if I don't switch to disc brakes.

OK, I see your points and am glad to stand corrected that most of the protour guys are not on carbon clinchers and are on carbon tubulars.....but the usecase of big riders blowing up Carbon clinchers on steep cyclocross descents just plays into my point. How often in triathlon are you doing offroad descents on steep terrain? The answer is never ? Right? So why are we worrying about this use case for triathlon.

Can any of you guys point me to a single triathlon race where anyone has ever exploded the rim of a carbon clincher due to heat buildup. Please name me one instance and document it or bring the person on the forum to whom this happens. Training does not count because you don't NEED to ride carbon clincher deep rims in training....plenty of good Al rim clinchers for training use cases. So let's keep this to triathlon racing scenarios only to justify why the industry needs to go to disk braked carbon clinchers for triathlon racing steeds.