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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [runwichi] [ In reply to ]
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runwichi wrote:
It's the same flawed logic that pervades gun laws and other issues that people expect to legislate solutions into human behavior. If the person doesn't care about the law and it's repercussions, why should they follow it? Laws only regulate those that follow them, not those that don't.

I wouldn't call it flawed logic, whether gun laws or license revocation laws. The laws weren't written with a naive expectation of 100% compliance. They were written, in part, to provide the justice system increased leverage for prosecution and sentencing. For example, if you drive-with-revoked in my state, the judge is required to jail you for at least 5 days, and up to 6 months. If combined with a DUI you give the judge free reign to go for max combined sentencing. They can go to town on you

If you want stiffer sentencing for a straight DUI (or 2), then fine, I could sign up for that. But that's a different issue.
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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [SDinhofer] [ In reply to ]
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SDinhofer wrote:
The more I see this and the more it affects all of us, I am wondering if there is something the smart, active & ingenious ST community can do every time this happens? My thinking is that we could as a community create easy to use tools, find local websites, bike shops, etc to get the word out and hand the locals, and any interested parties, the tools to reach out to prosecutors and judges to throw the book at these people. The sooner there are real implications, charges, jail time, permanent loss of driving privileges, the sooner we start to get this under control.
My thinking is:
+someone would have to take up finding local bike shops/fb groups, etc
+have a form letter written, 1 generic with blanks to fill in the specifics, and possibly one for each crime
+post the letter, and email addresses for the District Attorney & local judges that may be handling the case

we can all wince every time this happens, but we really need to start having real consequences to these criminals.

Check for a BikeLaw organization in your state. We have a very active BikeLaw.com attorney in our area. It is a start to hurt these drivers in the pocketbook. You might not get them locked up for years, but they will have to think about it every time their wages are garnished for the next decade.
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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
trimule wrote:
Trail - Don't mean to be a smart----- but, like the man said "What we have here is a failure to communicate!" The fact that he was driving a car means that he WAS allowed to drive. This is like telling a kid that he is not "allowed" to have any more cookies and then leaving them on the table when you exit the room. The only way to stop these people from DUI is to physically remove them from an environment where both cars and alcohol are present, i.e. put them in jail.


No, I get it. Semantics. Legally-speaking, someone with a revoked license isn't "allowed" to drive. I think you understand that's what I meant. Yes, there is some significant % of non-compliance to license revokation. I'm fine with some period of jail time for that sort of thing. But if you want to lobby to lock people up for life for DUI or driving-with-revoked, that's going to be tough. Not even things like rape or felony battery get life. I'd suggest attacking the issue from other angles.

All they need to do is add a chip to all licenses along with biometrics and require one be inserted and operating continual biometric checks on the driver in order for a vehicle to physically operate.
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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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mcmetal wrote:
All they need to do is add a chip to all licenses along with biometrics and require one be inserted and operating continual biometric checks on the driver in order for a vehicle to physically operate.

All? That'd require that all cars are built (and all old cars are retrofitted) with an ignition interlock that uses the card. That can't easily be defeated. That's a good idea, but a fairly expensive and tall order. There are also troublesome side effects. What if you get your wallet stolen while at Disneyland. Great, now you can't drive either. Maybe you can call and get your car remotely unlocked OnStar-style. But now you just added cellular data radios as an additional requirement to every car.

That may come anyway. But it doesn't sound like a short-term deal.

Legislatively it'd be tricky to get passed. Cars get more expensive. Nanny-state pushback against having government control of every car ignition.

Maybe you meant just installing the system on the offender's car, like the Breathalyzer interlocks that some states use. But what's to stop the dude borrowing old Cooter's pickup across the street to go get a fresh 24-pack? Back to square one.
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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [MrRabbit] [ In reply to ]
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I live 10 minutes from there and ride that road all the time. I hope this guy rots in jail and more importantly that the two injured folks recover ok.
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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
I wouldn't call it flawed logic, whether gun laws or license revocation laws. The laws weren't written with a naive expectation of 100% compliance. They were written, in part, to provide the justice system increased leverage for prosecution and sentencing. For example, if you drive-with-revoked in my state, the judge is required to jail you for at least 5 days, and up to 6 months. If combined with a DUI you give the judge free reign to go for max combined sentencing. They can go to town on you

If you want stiffer sentencing for a straight DUI (or 2), then fine, I could sign up for that. But that's a different issue.

But you're assuming (and this could be the wrong word, apologies if so) that jail is a bad thing - and for most people it is. But for repeat offenders, it's 5+ hot and cot, and they're back out. It's just a cycle that tends to perpetuate itself for individuals that are completely chemically dependent. Prison isn't bad anymore - they don't make big rocks into little ones anymore, Angola isn't 'The Farm', hell they have cable TV - I don't even have cable TV at home. Prison does nothing to rehabilitate or correct action, it's merely there to waste time and provide a networking opportunity for those that really don't need it. The question becomes what is the correct option then, and I think it would require a fundamental change in the way we address addiction and better ways make people accountable and responsible.

I recall a while back they wanted to make anyone with multiple DUI's have to buy a specially colored license place so that it would be evident to LEO/other that this person was a habitual issue and could be spotted easily. It was ultimately forced out via the courts because it would be akin to "profiling" and "demeaning". Well no shit. That's kind of the idea...
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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [runwichi] [ In reply to ]
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runwichi wrote:

But you're assuming (and this could be the wrong word, apologies if so) that jail is a bad thing - and for most people it is.

Well, we're getting close to Lavender Room territory here. But I think "bad" jail vs. Club Med jail is largely irrelevant. Send one PoS for a year to the Dreadfort to be flayed by Ramsay Bolton and another POS to the Four Seasons. After the year is over you get two PoS back into the world. The only benefit of the former is you get a "warm fuzzy" that his life was uncomfortable for a while. You'd like to think that all PoS criminals make rational cost-benefit analysis of the risk and duration of future discomfort when considering destructive behavior. But go figure, they generally don't. Particularly after working through a case of PBR.

Same with license plates. You get a warm fuzzy for all the PoS guys while severely impairing the ability of non-PoS types who reform themselves to get a job, etc.
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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [cquin534] [ In reply to ]
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Abc11 is saying prosecutor said in court at bail hearing one of them, Lori Cove I suspect from Wake Med condition report, is not expected to survive. The waste of oxygen deserves to not be allowed to roam since he's sociopathic and believes laws apply only to others
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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [xterratri] [ In reply to ]
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That's just sad... We have miniaturized the technology for breathalizer, gps and fingerprinting, maybe DUI offenders should have this system installed in their car(s). If they don't pass then the system won't function/not open the car. If they find a work around the GPS locator can show that the car is in motion while they haven't done the test... etc. etc. I can't wait for automated/driverless cars, I bet accidents will drop, like when they put a time-ban on drinking in CA which reduced the DUI and car crashes.
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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [brooktrout48] [ In reply to ]
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Update:

Lori is on life support and may not survive her injuries.

The judge refused to increase the bail past $100,000.

http://www.wral.com/...gs-to-life/16130966/

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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klehner wrote:
SDinhofer wrote:
The more I see this and the more it affects all of us, I am wondering if there is something the smart, active & ingenious ST community can do every time this happens? My thinking is that we could as a community create easy to use tools, find local websites, bike shops, etc to get the word out and hand the locals, and any interested parties, the tools to reach out to prosecutors and judges to throw the book at these people. The sooner there are real implications, charges, jail time, permanent loss of driving privileges, the sooner we start to get this under control.
My thinking is:
+someone would have to take up finding local bike shops/fb groups, etc
+have a form letter written, 1 generic with blanks to fill in the specifics, and possibly one for each crime
+post the letter, and email addresses for the District Attorney & local judges that may be handling the case

we can all wince every time this happens, but we really need to start having real consequences to these criminals.


Instead, what you get a lot of here is "That does it: I'm only riding in my basement from now on."

Yep. That's me. At least until I move to a different area of the country.
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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [ In reply to ]
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On a side note they were painting sharrows on Westin parkway this morning.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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To my earlier point, I just got this in my email from a friend. Asking me, as a fellow cyclist to write a letter to a judge in a case regarding his friend who was almost killed by a car who left the scene. this sort of crowd sourcing is exactly what is needed.

Hi All,

Please see the email below from one of my close cycling friends Ferhun Ognuc.
Ferhun was one of the first cyclist back in 2010 when I started riding that would come out with me most of the time in all kinds of weather. He coached me on technique and all the little tricks needed to know to become a better cyclist and a safe one.
Ferhun raced on the 1976 Olympic Turkish cycling team and raced professional for some time.
He always has a smile on his face and is always positive no matter what happens.
Ferhun almost lost his life back in June when a careless motorist hit him on Peekskill Hollow Rd in Putnam Valley, sent him about 30 feet down an embankment and left the scene. Fortunately he did not lose consciousness, and with his calf muscle laying on the roadway, 3 fractured vertebrates, fractured ribs and other injuries, he was able to crawl his way up to the roadway,where he was found by a passing motorist. He was airlifted to the Westchester Medical Ctr where he spent 3 weeks, before spending another 3 weeks in rehab.
He is almost fully recovered now and was at my party on Sat.
Having been hit by a car myself 2 years ago, but in my case I was only knocked down, and it didn't workout to well for the driver.
I really could not imagine someone taking off or leaving the scene after seriously hurting someone, so I ask that you PLEASE see the letter below, you can customize it if you want or just sign it send it to the judge as is, to help Ferhun out in his case.
Please pass this to your cycling group or anyone you know who cycles, we need laws that protect us!

Thanks for your help in this Matter!

Regards
John



Encourage a personal anecdote. Has any person ridden with Ferhun before? You should mention it. Do they respect Ferhun's skills as a cyclist? Have they seen Ferhun exercise caution when riding? It should be mentioned. Any variation on this theme is great.


I do not know which judge is hearing Ferhun's case, so address it to Chief Clerk Lisa D'Angelo, and ask her to forward the letter to the judge assigned to your case. The address is 20 County Center
Carmel, NY 10512


Thanks
Johnv


Your Honor:


I have been a cyclist since ________ and have been sharing local roads with cars for all those years. Most motorists are courteous, follow the rules of the road and I make it home safely. Never, though, have I been struck by a vehicle.


I certainly could not imagine being struck by a careless motorist who chooses to keep driving rather than stop. It is the nightmare of many cyclists. When drivers do not have any consequences for their carelessness, it encourages the same behavior in others. It makes the roads less safe for all of us.


Leaving the scene of the accident is serious. It is even more heinous when it nearly cost a man his life. To allow a careless driver to continue on in her life without any responsibility for her actions scares me. It sets a dangerous precedent.


Please keep the roads safe for others by enforcing the laws and holding careless drivers accountable. It could save the lives of bicyclists, pedestrians and others who are vulnerable when they traverse the same roads as cars.


Sincerely,
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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [SDinhofer] [ In reply to ]
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I like your idea, and to supplement, we need a solid PSA program targeted at the general public as well. crafting a game plan over the winter with a campaign rolled out in the spring is my current thought. as a race director, i've got a decent database to start with and can engage fellow athletes, rd's, associations like league of american bicyclists etc, to help get a message out.

perhaps we can get together and kick around a few ideas, im in the nyc area on occasion.

SDinhofer wrote:
To my earlier point, I just got this in my email from a friend. Asking me, as a fellow cyclist to write a letter to a judge in a case regarding his friend who was almost killed by a car who left the scene. this sort of crowd sourcing is exactly what is needed.

Hi All,

Please see the email below from one of my close cycling friends Ferhun Ognuc.
Ferhun was one of the first cyclist back in 2010 when I started riding that would come out with me most of the time in all kinds of weather. He coached me on technique and all the little tricks needed to know to become a better cyclist and a safe one.
Ferhun raced on the 1976 Olympic Turkish cycling team and raced professional for some time.
He always has a smile on his face and is always positive no matter what happens.
Ferhun almost lost his life back in June when a careless motorist hit him on Peekskill Hollow Rd in Putnam Valley, sent him about 30 feet down an embankment and left the scene. Fortunately he did not lose consciousness, and with his calf muscle laying on the roadway, 3 fractured vertebrates, fractured ribs and other injuries, he was able to crawl his way up to the roadway,where he was found by a passing motorist. He was airlifted to the Westchester Medical Ctr where he spent 3 weeks, before spending another 3 weeks in rehab.
He is almost fully recovered now and was at my party on Sat.
Having been hit by a car myself 2 years ago, but in my case I was only knocked down, and it didn't workout to well for the driver.
I really could not imagine someone taking off or leaving the scene after seriously hurting someone, so I ask that you PLEASE see the letter below, you can customize it if you want or just sign it send it to the judge as is, to help Ferhun out in his case.
Please pass this to your cycling group or anyone you know who cycles, we need laws that protect us!

Thanks for your help in this Matter!

Regards
John



Encourage a personal anecdote. Has any person ridden with Ferhun before? You should mention it. Do they respect Ferhun's skills as a cyclist? Have they seen Ferhun exercise caution when riding? It should be mentioned. Any variation on this theme is great.


I do not know which judge is hearing Ferhun's case, so address it to Chief Clerk Lisa D'Angelo, and ask her to forward the letter to the judge assigned to your case. The address is 20 County Center
Carmel, NY 10512


Thanks
Johnv


Your Honor:


I have been a cyclist since ________ and have been sharing local roads with cars for all those years. Most motorists are courteous, follow the rules of the road and I make it home safely. Never, though, have I been struck by a vehicle.


I certainly could not imagine being struck by a careless motorist who chooses to keep driving rather than stop. It is the nightmare of many cyclists. When drivers do not have any consequences for their carelessness, it encourages the same behavior in others. It makes the roads less safe for all of us.


Leaving the scene of the accident is serious. It is even more heinous when it nearly cost a man his life. To allow a careless driver to continue on in her life without any responsibility for her actions scares me. It sets a dangerous precedent.


Please keep the roads safe for others by enforcing the laws and holding careless drivers accountable. It could save the lives of bicyclists, pedestrians and others who are vulnerable when they traverse the same roads as cars.


Sincerely,

http://www.PatGriskusTri.com USAT Certified Race Director
2024 Races: USAT State of CT Age Group Championship/State of CT HS Champs/ CT Club Championship - Sat June 15th (Oly/Du/Sprint) Hopkins Vineyard Tri at Lake Waramaug Saturday July 13th http://www.HopkinsVineyardTri.com
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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [Twilkas] [ In reply to ]
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Any updates?

Thanks.
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Re: A guy just came in my neighborhood with a bicycle stuck to his windshield [Meek] [ In reply to ]
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Meek wrote:
Any updates?

Thanks.

The most severely injured cyclist remains in critical condition. She is in a coma and has had several surgeries to deal with neck and back injuries. She remains in our thoughts.

Janyne
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