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Re: Vineman 2017? [HaydenHunter] [ In reply to ]
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I'm happy about the Lake Sonoma swim. Might be the best swim yet.
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Re: Vineman 2017? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
Dispholidus wrote:
Wow, WTC has zero shame. They post a race that people shell out money for, and then they change the whole damn thing. Let me guess, they're also going to make getting a refund damn near impossible. I'm sure somewhere on that Active form there was a clause indicating that they could change the course to wherever, whenever, and whatever they wanted. Lawyer up you sons of motherless goats, I get a refund or we're going to litigate this bitch for false advertising, fraud, misrepresentation, hell by the time I'm done I plan to see if they might have committed acts against nature. Infuriating! OR, maybe they just nicely give a refund, and I haven't read that yet....there's always that.


Was that meant to be in pink? Does moving a race 9 or10 miles away make it refund worthy? That was rhetorical so best you not answer. :-)

The people who liked to take a walk in the Russian River during the swim are probably not happy that they now HAVE to swim the entire way. Other than that, yeah, I don't get the outrage either.
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Re: Vineman 2017? [Gtjojo189] [ In reply to ]
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Gtjojo189 wrote:
I'm not reading through all the replies to see if this is addressed, but this past year for Vineman they changed the run course the week of the race. Nothing is a given.

When you post a product for sale on your website and then you change it to something else after hundreds of people, maybe thousands, have already paid for said product, the consumer should expect "a given". If I ordered a shirt online, and I got a brick in the mail that would be equivalent to what this is. The course and maps have been posted since JULY. I don't want to run on a 50/50 trail/ road course. If I did I'd enter an Xterra race. I liked the Russian River swim, which is why I registered for this race. I like the little rollers and climbs, which is why I registered for this race. WTC seems to have real issues these days keeping the product true to what is advertised. Yes, Vineman's run course changed, Texas' bike course changed (and they didn't even do a full IM), Maryland had weather issues, etc etc etc, and who knows what happen to European races. Earth to WTC, this is how you lose customers.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
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Re: Vineman 2017? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
Dispholidus wrote:
Wow, WTC has zero shame. They post a race that people shell out money for, and then they change the whole damn thing. Let me guess, they're also going to make getting a refund damn near impossible. I'm sure somewhere on that Active form there was a clause indicating that they could change the course to wherever, whenever, and whatever they wanted. Lawyer up you sons of motherless goats, I get a refund or we're going to litigate this bitch for false advertising, fraud, misrepresentation, hell by the time I'm done I plan to see if they might have committed acts against nature. Infuriating! OR, maybe they just nicely give a refund, and I haven't read that yet....there's always that.


Was that meant to be in pink? Does moving a race 9 or10 miles away make it refund worthy? That was rhetorical so best you not answer. :-)


The people who liked to take a walk in the Russian River during the swim are probably not happy that they now HAVE to swim the entire way. Other than that, yeah, I don't get the outrage either.

Did you do the race? If not then I'm pretty sure you might not be aware that the parts you had to walk likely slowed you down. Was it comfortable to stand on slippery pointy rocks, and not be able to get a full stroke, not really. Was it cool to swim in the Russian River, yea actually it was. For those of us who can swim well, it wasn't an issue, and for those who can't swim well, I never saw large groups of people meandering down the river like they were window shopping at the mall. Maybe next year they can change Kona to Beijing, and then we can all wonder why anyone's outraged about that.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
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Re: Vineman 2017? [Dispholidus] [ In reply to ]
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Okay... so your previous comments weren't meant to be in pink.

The race moved 9 miles away, dude. 9 miles.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Vineman 2017? [USCoregonian] [ In reply to ]
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USCoregonian wrote:
Miamiamy wrote:
Dave Latourette wrote:
50% dirt / 50% pavement ... some shade pending time of day & location on trail


I just looked at the course map. I'm actually just happy something is already posted. The Bike coming soon isn't so great but I'll try to be patient. 50% dirt doesn't make me very happy but we'll see.


Dirt makes you unhappy? The softer surface during an Ironman feels amazing. The only bad part about the Tremblant course is that they paved the previously gravel section.

As somebody coming from the trail/ultrarunning world to triathlon, seeing 50% of the run course on dirt makes me very happy. I was not considering doing this race since I had done the 70.3 a couple years in a row, but the change may lead me to sign up.
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Re: Vineman 2017? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
Okay... so your previous comments weren't meant to be in pink.

The race moved 9 miles away, dude. 9 miles.

It could be 2 miles away, it doesn't matter, ITS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT RACE. TOTALLY DIFFERENT. The swim is in a different body of water, the bike is going to be mostly downhill, the run is on dirt and road. NOT THE SAME RACE. Part of the reason people come back to these races year after year is to try and better their time on that course. Vineman has been pretty much the same course for almost 30 years.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
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Re: Vineman 2017? [Dispholidus] [ In reply to ]
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Dispholidus wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
Okay... so your previous comments weren't meant to be in pink.

The race moved 9 miles away, dude. 9 miles.


It could be 2 miles away, it doesn't matter, ITS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT RACE. TOTALLY DIFFERENT. The swim is in a different body of water, the bike is going to be mostly downhill, the run is on dirt and road. NOT THE SAME RACE. Part of the reason people come back to these races year after year is to try and better their time on that course. Vineman has been pretty much the same course for almost 30 years.

It's been a few years since I did Vineman, but wasn't part of that run on the dirt? the section around the vineyard?

If you don't get your refund, you can always start a gofundme campaign to pay for your next race.

--------------------------------------------
TEAM F3 Undurance
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Re: Vineman 2017? [USCoregonian] [ In reply to ]
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USCoregonian wrote:
Miamiamy wrote:
Dave Latourette wrote:
50% dirt / 50% pavement ... some shade pending time of day & location on trail


I just looked at the course map. I'm actually just happy something is already posted. The Bike coming soon isn't so great but I'll try to be patient. 50% dirt doesn't make me very happy but we'll see.


Dirt makes you unhappy? The softer surface during an Ironman feels amazing. The only bad part about the Tremblant course is that they paved the previously gravel section.

I know - I'm a weirdo I'm not a fan of running on trails but I have plenty of time to practice for it so it's all good.

Somebody said the bike was mostly downhill. How did they know that? Today when I looked it says coming soon. Just curious.
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Re: Vineman 2017? [Multisportsdad] [ In reply to ]
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Multisportsdad wrote:
Dispholidus wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
Okay... so your previous comments weren't meant to be in pink.

The race moved 9 miles away, dude. 9 miles.


It could be 2 miles away, it doesn't matter, ITS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT RACE. TOTALLY DIFFERENT. The swim is in a different body of water, the bike is going to be mostly downhill, the run is on dirt and road. NOT THE SAME RACE. Part of the reason people come back to these races year after year is to try and better their time on that course. Vineman has been pretty much the same course for almost 30 years.


It's been a few years since I did Vineman, but wasn't part of that run on the dirt? the section around the vineyard?

If you don't get your refund, you can always start a gofundme campaign to pay for your next race.

The run was a triple loop w/ a little bit of up and down. I've got a little bit of shame. More than happy to bitch about it, and be unhappy with the changes, but damn who does that?

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
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Re: Vineman 2017? [Dispholidus] [ In reply to ]
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http://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

Here you go. Seemed to work out well for this guy.

--------------------------------------------
TEAM F3 Undurance
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Re: Vineman 2017? [Miamiamy] [ In reply to ]
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The 70.3 bike course is online and it's net downhill. The Santa Rosa course uses only 6 mi. of the old Vineman course and about 15 mi going the opposite direction. More freeway frontage and city streets and less riding through the redwoods. The first 3 miles are a fast 40+ mph descent which is going to make for some interesting clothing decisions
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Re: Vineman 2017? [dwreal] [ In reply to ]
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3mi descend at 40mph? that's like 900ft elevation drop if grade is 6% which is what you'd need to get up to 40mph.


dwreal wrote:
The 70.3 bike course is online and it's net downhill. The Santa Rosa course uses only 6 mi. of the old Vineman course and about 15 mi going the opposite direction. More freeway frontage and city streets and less riding through the redwoods. The first 3 miles are a fast 40+ mph descent which is going to make for some interesting clothing decisions
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Re: Vineman 2017? [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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sp1ke wrote:
3mi descend at 40mph? that's like 900ft elevation drop if grade is 6% which is what you'd need to get up to 40mph.


dwreal wrote:
The 70.3 bike course is online and it's net downhill. The Santa Rosa course uses only 6 mi. of the old Vineman course and about 15 mi going the opposite direction. More freeway frontage and city streets and less riding through the redwoods. The first 3 miles are a fast 40+ mph descent which is going to make for some interesting clothing decisions

Yes parts are at an 11% grade. I'm not even a good descender and I hit 40 without pedaling on a road bike. Couple that with being wet from the swim on a 50 degree May morning and athletes are going to get cold. I hope people plan for that.
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Re: Vineman 2017? [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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One can easily be hitting 40+ mph on that descent if they want ...

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
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Re: Vineman 2017? [dwreal] [ In reply to ]
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dwreal wrote:
sp1ke wrote:
3mi descend at 40mph? that's like 900ft elevation drop if grade is 6% which is what you'd need to get up to 40mph.


dwreal wrote:
The 70.3 bike course is online and it's net downhill. The Santa Rosa course uses only 6 mi. of the old Vineman course and about 15 mi going the opposite direction. More freeway frontage and city streets and less riding through the redwoods. The first 3 miles are a fast 40+ mph descent which is going to make for some interesting clothing decisions


Yes parts are at an 11% grade. I'm not even a good descender and I hit 40 without pedaling on a road bike. Couple that with being wet from the swim on a 50 degree May morning and athletes are going to get cold. I hope people plan for that.

If we could survive riding at IMLT in the 20's race morning, that is sauna temps :)

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Re: Vineman 2017? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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What would you say are the typical lake temps in May?
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Re: Vineman 2017? [jockette21] [ In reply to ]
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jockette21 wrote:
What would you say are the typical lake temps in May?

I listened to the RD's facebook live presentation yesterday. Think he said for May the water temps would be mid-60s. Low 70s for the full in July.
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