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Re: Trainerroad.com [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]
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Bryce Lewis TR wrote:
CJAC wrote:
Looking for something new as far as a plan. Been following some different IM trIning plans.
Want to train for IMs next year but also do some 200 mile gravel races.
Is there a way to combine plans instead of just picking one focus and train for?

There is no easy way to combine plans like that unfortunately; everything will need to be done manually.

One manual option could be to add the IM plan, delete all of the rides, and then add Sweet Spot Base -> Sustained Power Build -> Century plans for the bike, but these are not really designed to be done in addition to running and swimming. You will want to go down a volume at least if you choose to follow this approach.

In other words, if you're used to doing the Mid-Volume IM plan, you should add the Mid-Volume IM plan, delete the rides, and add the Low-Volume versions of the cycling plans.

I'm sorry I don't have a better solution for you at the moment :(

Appreciate the response will take a look at it. Plan to start trainer road this week, so we will see.
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Re: Trainerroad.com [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]
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Do Trainerroad workouts count toward Strava challenges? Here is what Strava says on its website:

"GPS and virtual rides will count towards the Challenge goal. For more information about virtual activities, please visit Strava's Support Center. Virtual rides are categorized as those that include GPS, distance, elevation, and time data from a simulated route.

Manual entries, private activities, and non-virtual trainer rides will not count toward your challenge effort."
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Re: Trainerroad.com [Toothless] [ In reply to ]
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Toothless wrote:
Do Trainerroad workouts count toward Strava challenges? Here is what Strava says on its website:

"GPS and virtual rides will count towards the Challenge goal. For more information about virtual activities, please visit Strava's Support Center. Virtual rides are categorized as those that include GPS, distance, elevation, and time data from a simulated route.

Manual entries, private activities, and non-virtual trainer rides will not count toward your challenge effort."

TrainerRoad rides will not count towards those challenges unfortunately since we do not have simulated GPS distance, elevation, or speed.

Get Faster with TrainerRoad
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Re: Trainerroad.com [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Bryce - thought Iā€™d put this here for the best answer -
I have a half in mid October. In lockdown and offseason I did TrainerRoad sweet spot base high volume one and two mixed with easy running only. As a result I had a healthy jump in ftp and felt very strong. From there I have moved into the mid volume half distance build. This incorporates v02 with threshold and although less tss a week, itā€™s much harder. As a result Iā€™m going backwards - coupled with one harder run a week now and swimming a few times a week out of lockdown, My bike isnā€™t progressing and Iā€™ve actually had to drop my ftp to get through workouts. I have finished this block and dare say zero improvment in ftp. It just cooked me a bit.

I have 10 weeks left till my half. I peeked at the half iron speciality phase high volume and noticed it has next to zero v02 max.
I ha e a few duathlons and can group ride for higher end bike work.

Should I kick around for the next two weeks then start the half iron speciality even tho I sucked badly and didnā€™t make any progress and am burning on the half build? Why does the speciality high volume half look so much easier than the build?
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Re: Trainerroad.com [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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Hey!

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Bryce is off pursuing his career as a Mechanical Engineer! We miss him already and we are stoked for his new adventure, but I'm happy to try to point you in the right direction!

First and foremost, you're definitely not alone in feeling like the Build Phase is super taxing. The Build Phase is where you're doing the majority of the work leading up to your event, and while it's not uncommon for it to feel difficult, we should look at your rest and recovery before revisiting your plan!
Influencing factors to rest and recovery such as life stress, sleep patterns, and nutrition can be so minimal, and yet have the largest impact on your recovery. I found a Forum post from an athlete that expressed similar sentiments during the build phase, and the TrainerRoad community helped with tons of advice and information: 'TrainerRoad Forum: Having Trouble Completing Workouts'. There are also some great tips on our blog about Rest Week Nutrition and Recovery, but ultimately, I think you'd be best served to take an extra rest day, really focus on rest, recovery, and nutrition to reset a little. Hopefully this results in coming back to your training refreshed and recharged!

Keep up the hard work and take care of yourself, and I think you'll surprise yourself this October!

Cheers!
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Re: Trainerroad.com [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Bryce,

I'm going through the Traditional Base program and I'm noticing 2 things that seem odd to me:

1. I like to ride outside as much as possible and was able to do the Short Power build program completely outside back in the spring. It worked out really well and made getting through the program a bit easier with the change of scenery. So I decided to do the same with the Traditional Base, at least as much as the weather allows. Today I did the outdoor version of Gibbs and noticed that when I switched from indoor to outdoor, the workout went from 2 hrs with a TSS of 82 for indoor to 3 hrs with a TSS of 125. That seems like a large change in time and TSS. Is that an error, or is there a reason for this?

2. The next thing I noticed was when I added the second block to my calendar, I noticed that there are a few workouts throughout the block that have no outdoor option. They seem like they are easier, more steady-state rides. I would think that these can just be switched out for a workout with similar length that has a similar TSS?

Strava
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Re: Trainerroad.com [gmh39] [ In reply to ]
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Hi there! I'm the 'new Bryce' at TrainerRoad. Happy to help you out.

1. Its normal to see this! The reason we do this is because comprehensively: riding outside is less efficient. Things like terrain, stoplights, and weather have to be taken into account when heading out to ride. Riding inside controls all of these external factors, and therefore allows the workouts to be incredibly precise.
To account for these external factors, many TrainerRoad outside workout equivalents will be between 15 and 60 minutes longer (depending on TR workout length) to ensure you are getting the same training benefit while riding outside, which also implies a greater TSS. You can read more FAQs on Outside Workouts here!

2. Some outside workouts will have a different name than your scheduled TrainerRoad workout once you switch to 'Outside'. Since many endurance workouts follow a more generic structure, these are grouped together so that one outside workout would be prescribed for a group of inside workouts. We are currently working through the library and changing the endurance rides so that each one has its own version of an outside ride, but in the meantime, it may just show a different naming structure. :)
The only rides that do not have outside options are the Ramp Test, and the 8 and 20 minute FTP test rides, so if you see a ride other than those three that are not available outside, please contact support@trainerroad.com so we can fix that particular workout!
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Re: Trainerroad.com [IvyTR] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the reply. It's taken me a bit to think on this, but I'm still a bit confused...

1. What about in the scenario where I am able to bike outside without hitting any stop signs or traffic lights on relatively flat terrain?

I tend to ride in either Prospect Park or Central Park here in NY. Both are closed to vehicular traffic and neither are what I would call hilly (I think there's ~50ft/mile of elevation gain in each loop). In this case a workout like Gibbs ends up with a TSS of ~150 if I got the full 3 hours outside in the prescribed wattage range vs a TSS of 82 if I were to complete the workout indoors. That's almost double the training stress for the outdoor version, which to me, seems not correct. I'm also not super versed in TSS and all the calculations and considerations that go into it as well as the creation of the training plans, so if I'm missing something please point me to an article/podcast/etc that can explain the details!

Cheers

Strava
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Re: Trainerroad.com [gmh39] [ In reply to ]
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Sure, makes sense! You're not missing anything, this just speaks to how efficient it is to execute your workout on the trainer without any influencing factors to detract form the effort, versus the myriad of potential influencers that can detract from your effort outside. As aforementioned, things like the terrain and weather are factors as well, and the extra ride time also accounts for the 'junk miles' it takes for people to ride to an unobstructed interval spot.
If you feel like your circumstance is different outside compared to the athletes that deal with things like having to get to the interval spot, navigating other bike traffic on closed paths once you start your ride, having to slow to pass other riders/runners on the path occasionally, etc., it sounds like you'll be best suited to exercise some free will in determining 1) if you've done your outside workout and the intervals are completed, and 2) if you feel like you haven't deviated from the primary objective of the workout. If so, you should feel free to cut it short!
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Re: Trainerroad.com [IvyTR] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ivy, I'm nearly 50 and have been using TR for years and VO2 workouts have always been my weak spot, especially after an increase in FTP. For me to get through a workout, I definitely need to modify or it becomes a scattershot mess. That said, what is the best way to modify VO2 Max workouts: A) Keep the same workout, but drop the intensity considerably in order to make the intervals (85-90%) or B) Switch to workouts with shorter intervals (eg 1.5 minutes instead of 3 min) but keep it closer to the workout intensity (95-97%). I'm guessing it would be to go with shorter intervals at the prescribed intensity rather than dropping the intensity so much that it becomes a Threshold workout, but I wanted to ask the pros first. Thanks for your help!
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Re: Trainerroad.com [Kentucky Mac] [ In reply to ]
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Hey great question! You're not alone in this, which is why we developed Adaptive Training to help address those area areas where athletes tend to struggle on an individual level. Progression Levels are measured from your prior workouts and updated each time you do a new workout to automatically monitor your growing fitness across all training zones, and a workout substitutions or change will result accordingly! It's pretty slick, tons of info here: 'TrainerRoad Blog: Adaptive Training'.
We're working on adding more and more athletes daily to closed testing, and will have it available for every athlete as soon as we can, but in the meantime, your inclination is correct that you should default to shorter intervals versus dropping the intensity. Hitting that 'zone' is important work for sure, so if you cut it short or do less overall time in that zone, it will be a great 'quick-fix' until we can get you on Adaptive Training! Cheers.
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Re: Trainerroad.com [IvyTR] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone have issues w new iOS app update?

I go in and change my ftp, go back out to do the workout and itā€™s the old number.

Lost all my favorite workouts.

It will not show the power, but it will control my kickr correctly. But after the workout it says I did 0 tss and burnt 0 calories.
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Re: Trainerroad.com [BubbaSam] [ In reply to ]
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I had issues.

My paired devices, kickr and Garmin 945 (for HR) disappeared. I was able to pair the kickr again with no issues but the app couldnā€™t find my watch. I logged a ticket and when I tried again the next day it found it and now works again!
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Re: Trainerroad.com [BubbaSam] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry for the trouble, please reach out the team at support@trainerroad.com and they'll sort you out!
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Re: Trainerroad.com [IvyTR] [ In reply to ]
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Can you give us more info on the recent changes to Trainer Road? I used the plan builder early this year -- should I start over in order to get the new tweaks or has my calendar already been updated with the changes? I guess I don't even know very much about what's changed, so I might not even be able to ask the right questions -- so what questions should I be asking?

Thanks
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Re: Trainerroad.com [hugoagogo] [ In reply to ]
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https://www.trainerroad.com/...ainnow-updates/58463

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

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Re: Trainerroad.com [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks
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Re: Trainerroad.com [hugoagogo] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ivy
A few questions. I am on the beta with AT.

1) using the plan builder for a half iron in Sept. What is the target wattage for the actual A-race that the plan is using? As an example: is the plan training me to ride the race at 90% of my tested FTP?

2) I had a long ride on the trainer scheduled but decided to do 4 hours outside (much harder effort). How will Adaptive Training compensate the plan to reflect this? The ride was pulled into TR via strava but no TSS was calculated.

3) general question on AT: if the AT machine learning is constantly adjusting the plan to get the ideal outcome, what is TR using as the ā€œideal outcomeā€ (the x to y) and how do you measure this? I do not see where I take a FTP test at the end and I do not see actual race performance as an imported variable.

Thanks
-K
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Re: Trainerroad.com [IvyTR] [ In reply to ]
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IvyTR wrote:
Sorry for the trouble, please reach out the team at support@trainerroad.com and they'll sort you out!

Sidebar:

The episode when the hosts were talking about Amberā€™s short term race schedule (or lack there of due to pregnancy) and you commented from the peanut gallery ā€œshe got knocked up!ā€ was probably the funniest part of any TR podcast Iā€™ve heard before. šŸ˜‚
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Re: Trainerroad.com [eburgers69] [ In reply to ]
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eburgers69 wrote:
3) general question on AT: if the AT machine learning is constantly adjusting the plan to get the ideal outcome, what is TR using as the ā€œideal outcomeā€ (the x to y) and how do you measure this? I do not see where I take a FTP test at the end and I do not see actual race performance as an imported variable.

Good question, and Ivy is the better source of information.

But my understanding having read the TR forums and other sources is that, for now, the Ramp Test is used as a "ground truth." (ground truth being an "independent" set of data used to measure the predicted vs. actual improvement in fitness). I think a goal is to eventually get rid of the Ramp Test. But for now it's used to both trigger recalculation of Progression Levels, and is probably used behind the scenes to see if it matches with what you're telling TR in your workout data and post-workout surveys. And also almost certainly being used by TR to see if people following AT generally have better progress in sequences of Ramp Tests vs. those people not doing AT.
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Re: Trainerroad.com [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I agree that the ramp test is the ground floor. That is the baseline. The ā€œxā€ in the x-to-y. My question is around the AT ā€œpredictedā€ outcome. The ā€œYā€. What are they targeting my Y to be (and at what pace- see question #2).

But the bigger question is: how do they know a more (or less) successful outcome (Y) if they never measure it. There is no re-evaluation that the ground floor has actually moved.
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Re: Trainerroad.com [eburgers69] [ In reply to ]
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Hey! Good questions,

1. Within Plan Builder, you'll choose an 'intensity' for the duration of the event ie All Out, Race Pace, etc. Plan Builder estimates TSS for your event from there and builds your training plan accordingly to prepare you for that specified duration and intensity.

2. We are actively working on accounting for unstructured outside rides and making adaptations/Progression Level updates accordingly.

3. The ideal outcome is specific to each athlete, the event and discipline you're working towards, and your individual Progression Levels and those deficits that need to be addressed! It will all look very different to each athlete, and visibility to your Progression Levels with Adaptive Training will help with that for sure, and its something that is being constantly assessed with each workout (and additional Ramp Test) you complete.
Last edited by: IvyTR: Jul 6, 21 13:25
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Re: Trainerroad.com [TJP_SBR] [ In reply to ]
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Haha THANK YOU! Happy to add a little spice to the podcast. Thanks for listening! :)
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Re: Trainerroad.com [IvyTR] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Ivy
Thanks for the response. Much appreciated.

On question #3 I see your point and that everyone will have a different result and will have a different progression to that outcome. But isnā€™t that the point of all the data and machine learning?

Maybe asked another way: if a 43 year old male with a ftp of 260 completes the half Ironman AT prescribed plan, what does the data tell you where I should be at the end of the plan and how do you know this outcome? What does the ā€œprogression levelā€ tell me where I will end up? How did you test the data if at the end of every plan there is not a ramp test?
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Re: Trainerroad.com [eburgers69] [ In reply to ]
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Happy to clarify! The point of Machine Learning and the data collected is the ability to address individually, with more context, the deficits and strengths of each athlete to serve them the right workout every time.

This also applies to the full scope of your training, where your age and FTP are only a small part of the full input of what Machine Learning and Adaptive Training consider when making adaptations, and will identify the specific systems that need to be developed for you to prepare you for that Half Ironman. Your need for more threshold work or VO2 Max work for example will be individual, identified in the workouts you're doing, how you succeed or struggle through them based upon category and the type of work, and then addressed when Adaptive Training recommends an update in workout and updates your Progression Levels. Theres no on-size-fits-all approach, which is great, and also takes some trusting of the process. ;)

Good luck, and of course feel free to check in with the team at support@trainerroad.com if you have more questions or need help!
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