Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [Sbernardi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Barry,

I’m glad you provide the counter points to the arguments I have made against these changes to our bylaws. I think it’s important that the membership know that twelve of us did not sit in a board room 18 months ago with mal intent. These bylaw changes were not made with the intent of taking away member’s rights or excluding those members from the organization. It was not our intent, but the final red-lined document, which takes hours to fully decipher, does exactly that.

First, only 2% of the membership votes. How do these changes resolve that problem? Does the new makeup of the board tackle the apathy of the members?

No. Your argument says that the passionate 2% who take the time to vote should be silenced because unless everyone votes, nobody should. One of the compromises we reached was to maintain regional positions and maintain a member election. Unfortunately, we also came to bylaws that took away the rights of members to nominate themselves.

I agree that the organization may benefit from the ability to recruit and nominate members with specific skillsets. What I disagree with is that the members no longer have a way to disagree with the candidates we select.

Second, I know many people remember the attempted coup by the elites a few years ago. I personally don’t condone Jarrod Shoemaker running as a regional representative while still actively pursuing the US Olympic Team and receiving National Team support. And the members also disagreed and elected Mike Wein instead. Mike Wein is certainly not more popular in triathlon than a US Olympian, and yet the 2% who voted did not pick the “popular minority”. That is exactly how the system should (and does) work.

The bylaw changes don’t just restrict the positions that elites can run for. It changes the definition of “elite” in such a way that athletes who have no connection to the Olympic movement (think Jordan Rapp) would be ineligible to serve on the board. The Ted Stevens Act requires us to have a minimum of 3 athlete representatives to preserve the interest of USAT's position as a US Olympic Committee organization. This change would make USAT the first of these organizations to set a maximum – is that really following “best practices”?

The majority of our 300 elites are not and have never been in the Olympic pipeline. These are some of the most passionate members of our organization, including doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs and business men and women. The bylaw changes restrict those members from representing member's interests now, and for a period of 10 years into the future. No other group is limited in this way.

Finally, I want to reiterate to the members reading this that the current board did not spend 18 months rewriting the bylaws in order to secure their own interests. I’m extremely proud to be on the board with a group of distinguished and smart individuals. We have race directors, executives, lawyers - even a professor of marketing. We have a competent board that was created by passionate members who wanted to make a difference in our sport. That board was nominated and elected by you! Under the current bylaws!

We followed the USOC recommendations to take a look at our bylaws, and it is true that they need updating; some spring cleaning to get rid of the clutter. But somewhere along the line we lost track of that simple goal and created a new document that cuts out the membership from the process. It is a well-intentioned attempt to maintain the quality of the board that we have. I’m not concerned that the current board will make poor or selfish decisions (they voted to eliminate their own positions!) – I’m concerned that when a future board does make poor decisions, we the members will have no recourse.

Thank you for opening this discussion. I hope that the members will vote in this election, and that after this election is over we can start focusing on creating a relevant organization that inspires more than 2% of its members to speak their opinion and be involved.

-Ben Collins
Athlete Representative

Ben Collins
Amateur Swimmer, Amateur Cyclist, Amateur Runner...
...Professional Triathlete.
It's not the length that matters, but what you do with it.
Last edited by: Slowman: Sep 30, 16 15:08
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [triBC] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Wait, who are you writing to? Did you post this to Barry's facebook page?
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [Sbernardi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ben Collins has a You Tube video up on why he's recommending a vote no:

(Apologies if this has been shared before)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QREbDaTOXz4
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [wmoore] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That's exactly it. You don't write governing documents for the current leadership but for worst case senerios to protect the members. Also, I have a feeling they will see more than 2% vote this year.
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [triBC] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for taking a courageous public stand against the majority of the board for the good of the USAT membership.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [Sbernardi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Note that the current Board, including all eight Regional Directors, voted to reduce the number of Regional Directors to six.


Hard to tell what was exactly going on at this Board meeting from the minutes, but seems to be that the regional directors Susan Haag, Dave Kuendig and Kevin Haas voted NO to the restructuring plan : https://www.teamusa.org/~/media/USA_Triathlon/PDF/Governance/Board-of-Directors-Minutes/2016/April_3_2016_minutes_final.pdf?la=en
Last edited by: SBR365: Oct 1, 16 9:55
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RowToTri wrote:
Thanks for taking a courageous public stand against the majority of the board for the good of the USAT membership.
I don't see how allowing a microscopic minority of USAT members to stuff the board with their own people is good of the rest of the membership.
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Arch Stanton wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
Thanks for taking a courageous public stand against the majority of the board for the good of the USAT membership.

I don't see how allowing a microscopic minority of USAT members to stuff the board with their own people is good of the rest of the membership.

I agree - I think Ben Collins agrees as well, since he is arguing for a less restrictive nominating process rather than requiring board nominations, unless I am missing something.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
After reading more opinions on all side, I guess I am scratching my head. One of the things I DO not support is the elites, as was talked about in the past on ST, being able
to stack the board so they can push their interests to get more and more money from us AGers so they can have it. So, it seems that one change
these by-laws may be trying to do is stop some of the loop holes the elites found to attempt to give them the majority of board seats. And if they were successful doing this,
us AGers are probably screwed.

Now, am I reading or thinking about this wrong? I know some of the sunshine working is being taken away, but if legally they have to timely give out info, then maybe it is
not big deal and it just makes things easier.

So, if the change has the ability to not allow Elites to stack the board, then I wish I could change my vote to yes.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [Sbernardi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Please read the bylaw amendments carefully. This is so much more than about elite athlete representation. It is about age group athletes and regional representatives losing representation on and across the board. I applaud Ben Collins for putting out such a sound and well thought out opinion on the bylaw amendments. Age group athletes, the ones paying the freight, are the ones that should have increased representation through elections, not decreased represenration because of appointed independent board members. Your elected board is attempting to pull a fast one on you. Current national board members might be lemmings, but age groupers need to assert their intelligence and objectivity and vote this bylaw amendment down! Stand up for your rights as USAT dues paying members. After this travesty and insulting bylaw amendment, the current USAT board members need to be voted out of office for being either misguided, lemmings, gutless, afraid of Barry Siff or all of the above. Take your organization back.
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [smoothoperator] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
smoothoperator wrote:
Please read the bylaw amendments carefully. This is so much more than about elite athlete representation. It is about age group athletes and regional representatives losing representation on and across the board. I applaud Ben Collins for putting out such a sound and well thought out opinion on the bylaw amendments. Age group athletes, the ones paying the freight, are the ones that should have increased representation through elections, not decreased represenration because of appointed independent board members. Your elected board is attempting to pull a fast one on you. Current national board members might be lemmings, but age groupers need to assert their intelligence and objectivity and vote this bylaw amendment down! Stand up for your rights as USAT dues paying members. After this travesty and insulting bylaw amendment, the current USAT board members need to be voted out of office for being either misguided, lemmings, gutless, afraid of Barry Siff or all of the above. Take your organization back.

I just love comments like this from folks who have no guts to put their real names down.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
smoothoperator wrote:
Please read the bylaw amendments carefully. This is so much more than about elite athlete representation. It is about age group athletes and regional representatives losing representation on and across the board. I applaud Ben Collins for putting out such a sound and well thought out opinion on the bylaw amendments. Age group athletes, the ones paying the freight, are the ones that should have increased representation through elections, not decreased represenration because of appointed independent board members. Your elected board is attempting to pull a fast one on you. Current national board members might be lemmings, but age groupers need to assert their intelligence and objectivity and vote this bylaw amendment down! Stand up for your rights as USAT dues paying members. After this travesty and insulting bylaw amendment, the current USAT board members need to be voted out of office for being either misguided, lemmings, gutless, afraid of Barry Siff or all of the above. Take your organization back.

I just love comments like this from folks who have no guts to put their real names down.

Zip it, Dave. Let's stay on task here.

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [Sbernardi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That's a whole lot of words. Too long, didn't read!

The one thing I do know about USAT is that I have to pay fees and I'm not sure what the hell for.....I guess it pays salaries for guys like Barry Siff who write long posts on Facebook all day.

I'm voting NO!
Last edited by: T3_Beer: Oct 3, 16 19:35
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [T3_Beer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's pays expenses for Barry, otherwise he is a volunteer.
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
stringcheese wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
smoothoperator wrote:
Please read the bylaw amendments carefully. This is so much more than about elite athlete representation. It is about age group athletes and regional representatives losing representation on and across the board. I applaud Ben Collins for putting out such a sound and well thought out opinion on the bylaw amendments. Age group athletes, the ones paying the freight, are the ones that should have increased representation through elections, not decreased represenration because of appointed independent board members. Your elected board is attempting to pull a fast one on you. Current national board members might be lemmings, but age groupers need to assert their intelligence and objectivity and vote this bylaw amendment down! Stand up for your rights as USAT dues paying members. After this travesty and insulting bylaw amendment, the current USAT board members need to be voted out of office for being either misguided, lemmings, gutless, afraid of Barry Siff or all of the above. Take your organization back.


I just love comments like this from folks who have no guts to put their real names down.


Zip it, Dave. Let's stay on task here.

If someone is going to attack or support folks, they should have the guts to put their real name down or zip it.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The elites can't stack the board unless the membership votes them in. There is an automatic check/balance there.
If they didn't work in the interests of the membership they'd get voted out.

IMO the gutting of the sunshine provision is the biggest issue, because then you really have no way to evaluate the board.

#voteno

h2ofun wrote:
After reading more opinions on all side, I guess I am scratching my head. One of the things I DO not support is the elites, as was talked about in the past on ST, being able
to stack the board so they can push their interests to get more and more money from us AGers so they can have it. So, it seems that one change
these by-laws may be trying to do is stop some of the loop holes the elites found to attempt to give them the majority of board seats. And if they were successful doing this,
us AGers are probably screwed.

Now, am I reading or thinking about this wrong? I know some of the sunshine working is being taken away, but if legally they have to timely give out info, then maybe it is
not big deal and it just makes things easier.

So, if the change has the ability to not allow Elites to stack the board, then I wish I could change my vote to yes.

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
So, if the change has the ability to not allow Elites to stack the board, then I wish I could change my vote to yes.

That was the one change that I thought was ok, but on the whole, it it a move by the board to make itself more self sustaining, and closing the ranks, not just against the Elites, but anyone who wants to question them. The nominating committee is the scariest part; they board will present the membership only people they pre-select as candidates. So, even if someone gathers the required signatures to appear on the ballot, they could be shot down beforehand. Scary.

I do think that we need to change the bylaws to put a restriction on how much (percentage wise) of the budget can be spent on the Elites, or maybe just matching what the USOC contributes, up to some percentage. There would probably have to be some limit on the annual budget based on annual income, so that the budget couldn't just eat into the reserves just to keep the Elite spending at a high level, even if age group membership is falling. Somewhere, somehow we need to tie Elite support to what they bring to the table vis a vis increased membership.
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
stringcheese wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
smoothoperator wrote:
Please read the bylaw amendments carefully. This is so much more than about elite athlete representation. It is about age group athletes and regional representatives losing representation on and across the board. I applaud Ben Collins for putting out such a sound and well thought out opinion on the bylaw amendments. Age group athletes, the ones paying the freight, are the ones that should have increased representation through elections, not decreased represenration because of appointed independent board members. Your elected board is attempting to pull a fast one on you. Current national board members might be lemmings, but age groupers need to assert their intelligence and objectivity and vote this bylaw amendment down! Stand up for your rights as USAT dues paying members. After this travesty and insulting bylaw amendment, the current USAT board members need to be voted out of office for being either misguided, lemmings, gutless, afraid of Barry Siff or all of the above. Take your organization back.


I just love comments like this from folks who have no guts to put their real names down.


Zip it, Dave. Let's stay on task here.


If someone is going to attack or support folks, they should have the guts to put their real name down or zip it.
Do you troll because you can't help it or do you actively go out of your way?

This is a pretty serious issue to any USAT member. If you don't care, I don't care -- but go derail something else.
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [spudone] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Also, *regardless* of the structure of the elected members, I would have voted no on this simply because they axed the sunshine policy.

I have yet to hear any rationale on why that was needed. If they want a pure vote on how to handle the elites, they should change only that section of the document and avoid other wholesale alterations.
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [spudone] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spudone wrote:
Also, *regardless* of the structure of the elected members, I would have voted no on this simply because they axed the sunshine policy.

I have yet to hear any rationale on why that was needed. If they want a pure vote on how to handle the elites, they should change only that section of the document and avoid other wholesale alterations.

Still would love to hear from Dan more about this. Have they really axed the "sunshine policy"? Legally, are they forced to release the same stuff in the same
time frame anyways? If so, why have the extra baggage?

No idea the answer, just seems more questions, and too much emotion.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
spudone wrote:
Also, *regardless* of the structure of the elected members, I would have voted no on this simply because they axed the sunshine policy.

I have yet to hear any rationale on why that was needed. If they want a pure vote on how to handle the elites, they should change only that section of the document and avoid other wholesale alterations.


Still would love to hear from Dan more about this. Have they really axed the "sunshine policy"? Legally, are they forced to release the same stuff in the same
time frame anyways? If so, why have the extra baggage?

No idea the answer, just seems more questions, and too much emotion.
My guess is they had a lawyer review the whole document. They'll usually say they want to "bring it up to date", and by that, they mean reduce legal exposure. To a lawyer, the sunshine policy exposes the corporation, so of course the first instinct would be to remove it. But that's just leaning on my experience in other companies.

Maybe Ben can shed more light... if he knows or is allowed to disclose it.
Quote Reply
Re: Barry Siff USAT President responds to Changes of Bylaws [spudone] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spudone wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
spudone wrote:
Also, *regardless* of the structure of the elected members, I would have voted no on this simply because they axed the sunshine policy.

I have yet to hear any rationale on why that was needed. If they want a pure vote on how to handle the elites, they should change only that section of the document and avoid other wholesale alterations.


Still would love to hear from Dan more about this. Have they really axed the "sunshine policy"? Legally, are they forced to release the same stuff in the same
time frame anyways? If so, why have the extra baggage?

No idea the answer, just seems more questions, and too much emotion.

My guess is they had a lawyer review the whole document. They'll usually say they want to "bring it up to date", and by that, they mean reduce legal exposure. To a lawyer, the sunshine policy exposes the corporation, so of course the first instinct would be to remove it. But that's just leaning on my experience in other companies.

Maybe Ben can shed more light... if he knows or is allowed to disclose it.

Could be. I just would love to see a non emotional statement that all sides should be able to agree on.

If getting rid of the wording changes stuff, what, non emotionally, is it? What legally is it? I never understand why it is so hard on issues to just got the facts
that we can all agree on. There cannot be multiple answers if analysis is done correctly.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply

Prev Next