Right, it's Obama's fault that the REPUBLICANS voted for Trump in their primaries. Bit of a stretch don't ya think?

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TEAM HD
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Obama's Legacy = Donald Trump

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

This just in... "Trump shoots someone in the middle of press conference. Obama arrested for murder."

I've posted several post on this. No, Obama isn't the reason for trump. But a big reason.

You are foolish of republicans didn't play a role and you are also foolish if Obama with his tone deafness on half the population. Wasn't a big reason.

There is a political theory of the political pendulum. Where the subsequent administration is a repudiation of the last and can sometimes be more in the opposite direction.

1. Clinton for all his administrative successes was morally and ethically bankrupt. Bush was seen initially as the antithetical Clinton. A morally and ethically unambiguous individual.

2. Obama was elected as the anti-thesis of what bush turned out to be. An anti-war candidate. A Uniter against some of bush's devisive policies. Obama proved neither. Actually dividing Americans further. Leaving the white blue collar portion of society to feeling marginalized.

Trump is the big fuck you to Obama and the globalist policies he pushes. If you don't see this, you to are tone deaf.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

God I hope trump wins. If not because I can stand Hillary, but to see the four years of misery and depression people like you will suffer.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Trump is, first and foremost, the result of the rebulican party not having any other half decent candidates. He was the best of the bunch, and that says more about the bunch then about Obama.

Not saying there isn't some truth to what you're saying, but as far as excuses for Trump go, it's far down the list.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

You seem to know a lot about me from one sentence.

Rand Paul was a helluva much better choice, he just didn't appeal to the anger and the desire to give the current way of doing things a big middle finger like Trump did.

Also people are stupid.

Here's how I see it. When you clean house, all the shit has to go out in the middle of the room and you have to sort though it and put away what you want to keep. This election and the 4 years after, no matter who wins, is all the shit being put out in the middle. Things always look like a complete disaster before they get better. So when you say people like me I don't think you know what the fuck you're talking about.

Its an internets forum. If you aren't somebody I routinely engage in and you disagree with me, it is "people like you".

Right now you don't sound much different than any other democrat partisan hack who thinks they are more enlightened or different.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

I often wonder about this. I'll most certainly be embarrassed but I doubt it'll affect me much. The puzzling thing is, I also don't see any evidence that Trump will have a measurable impact on the lives of his most fervent supporters. There is absolutely nothing in his record and very little in his proposals that would suggest otherwise. The few actionable bits are slightly geared towards people who are better off (like pretty much everyone on these forums). The rest is just blowhard BS that's either unconstitutional (all the references to police-state-style enforcement and profiling etc.), against international law (indiscriminate bombing, torture...), or just ridiculous fantasy (wall...). His personal business record is not quite abysmal but compared to the broad market, his only claim to fame is that he didn't lose his father's inheritance.

With Hillary there is a fair bit more clarity - it'd be "more of the same" we've seen over the past 20 years. Great for upper-middle class people and above...so again, not much impact for folks on here except the highest W2 earners who'd get boned a bit more on taxes. There are lots of people who haven't done so great in the past few decades and we're witnessing the divisions this is creating. The fact that she's a bona-fide crook doesn't really bother me any more than the fact that ALL politicians in Washington are insider trading, favor selling, double speaking a-holes.

Executive Summary: In essence, I'm not sure that people who honestly believe that America is not great already are going to witness the Donald making it great. He hasn't said how he'd do it and his record doesn't support the notion that he is capable to do it.

Rand vs Hillary and Rand runs away with the win. I'd say the same with Rubio and Kasich.

Biden vs Trump and Bide runs away with the win.

People just don't like either candidate but they just don't want the "other sides" bad candidate to win. Trump is the f-you to the R establishment that has pushed other crappy squishy R candidates like Mitt and McCain.

Trump is the false embodiment of seething anger that has lied hidden under the surface for 16 years. The compassionate conservative who did nothing for those needing compassion, the uniter who became the biggest divider. He isn't by any stretch going to live up to expectations, but if he gets a pro-second amendment judge in Scalia's spot, and bonus for Ginsberg dropping dead, I'm happy. If he pulls back the US as the worlds police force, I'd be happy. And if he does force other NATO countries to abide by the original conditions to maintain NATO, I'm fine with that to.

To me, anything that disturbs the elite status quo is a good thing.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

That's why I will relish the inevitable Hillary victory. It should be entertaining.

Which unfulfilled obligations do you think Trump would enforce?

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

What do you think will happen to Trump's current base if he get's elected and it turns out he is actually far more of a moderate than anybody had ever thought? I don't think it's outside the realm of possibilities since one of the attacks by his rivals during the primary was how he used to be a democrat. If they voted for Trump because they hated Obama and the establishment then they're really going to loose their shit when they were bamboozled by a reality TV star. Not saying this will happen, but a possibility, (and what I hope is the case if he is elected).

She isn't as bad as Obama is. Bad, but not that bad. It will be more of the same dysfunctional status quo only for an even more extreme republican candidate to emerge from the festering anger that went unresolved. The will also have a pretty solid house to stand in the way of her for at least two years. My biggest fear from her is the SCOTUS, but even the likelihood of a solid senate majority for dems is looking slim. I doubt she would able to get a rabid anti-gunner in or anybody like Sotomayor.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

It's really that simple isn't it? Every elite group hates Trump so he must be good for the rest.

Every elite group hates Trump so he must be good for the rest.

It would mean a lot more if Trump himself wasn't one of the elites.

Forge, the more I hear you speak of Obama as the "Great Divider" the more I know that you and those who speak of this "NEW" divide have not been paying attention to the BIG PICTURE at all for a VERY long time.

The class divisions of outsourcing, globalism, and technology have been going on for decades now. Listen to old Springsteen John Cougar or hell any Blues, Country, or Soul song and they speak of Plant Closures, Lost Jobs and Small towns drying up well before NAFTA, Large Scale Globalization, and Digital technology and Computers.
The issues with Police Violence against Blacks and other Minorities goes back long before Obama, have a look at many movies in the 70's. Gangster Rap in 80's, Rodney King etc...

I see people such as Obama as unifiers because they show that:
1) Anyone can achieve in this country (As a 47 year old Black person, I did not know if I would see a Black President in my lifetime)
2) Although it may not be perfect: visibility will go to ensure that people who are different (Gay, Minority, Female etc etc) get treated fairly and have not have their Civil Rights taken away simply because of who they are
3) You always speak of him being "Tone Deaf", I see you as expecting for him to only do what it is you want. Frankly that was not the platform he was elected on. Guns Guns Guns was not a part of Hope and Change. Sorry.

The blame for the rise of Trump is a sum of many things, yes some include Obama and the fact that minorities are reaching positions of REAL Power in this country in business and government. Some folks feel that us "Dark Folks" should know our place. However, the real issues are people who have not, cannot, or will not adapt to change. People who are pissed that the small mining and manufacturing towns have gone away and are not willing to either move to where jobs are, learn new skills, and or adapt are getting left behind.
The problem is that as our society changes and moves on we are also "Forgetting" and Letting these people get left behind.

The emotion of one's own lot in life makes the divide. Prius driving People in Metro Los Angeles cannot see how anyone with a brain would vote for Trump. Coal Mining People in Rural West Virginia cannot see how anyone with a brain could vote for Hillary.

The biggest divide is that Prius driving People in Metro Los Angeles will not visit the people in Rural West Virginia and the Coal Mining People of Rural West Virginia will not visit people in Metro Los Angeles. They certainly will not agree upon energy solutions for the ENTIRE country.

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