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Re: Wiggins didn't break the rules - but do we consider him a doper anyway? [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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'Now we understand why Team Sky never joined,' says MPCC doctor

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/now-we-understand-why-team-sky-never-joined-says-mpcc-doctor/


I also found this interesting from 2015 -
Vinokourov questions BMC and Team Sky's absence from MPCC


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vinokourov-questions-bmc-and-team-skys-absence-from-mpcc/


Last edited by: microspawn: Sep 29, 16 4:50
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Re: Wiggins didn't break the rules - but do we consider him a doper anyway? [Brooks Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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So given that a majority of the comments on this thread think that he is guilty of doping...How can we apply this to other athletes?

- That anyone with a TUE is a doper UNLESS we know all of his/her medical history about the medical issue, know the schedule of Dr appointments they have had, and other medications they may have tried??

Some of you are going to say I'm just trying to be a smart ass and make a broad generalization, but what other take away message can be gleamed from this. All we have are rumors and allegations about the process of the TUE and most everyone has jumped to conclusions by making serious allegations.

It used to be the case (not all that long ago) that if you think you need a drug then go get a TUE. After that you are good. At some point in the last couple of months the bar was raised.
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Re: Wiggins didn't break the rules - but do we consider him a doper anyway? [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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I've actually never stated he's a doper nor care to actually define him as a doper or not.

If you put up your race results, timing of TUE processes, when you didn't have a TUE but still raced, statements on your own actions of seeking an TUE then I can atleast look at the subject at hand and make more informed discussion points.


If you don't think this case brings up serious issues with gaming the system, then that's fine. We have nothing else to discuss. And I've not nor has anyone else stated that TUE= doping.

I've said that in this instance the info I have, I call BS w Wiggins. No one else but Wiggins. Eta: I should clarify I call BS on the whole situation- Wiggins, Sky, UCI.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: Brooks Doughtie: Sep 29, 16 9:01
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Re: Wiggins didn't break the rules - but do we consider him a doper anyway? [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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See the issue I see is, arguing whether he is a doper or not is pointless. That ship has passed, he's legally allowed to take banned substance during competition. End of story.

Discussing how/why he applied for an TUE AND was given the TUE should be the issue.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Wiggins didn't break the rules - but do we consider him a doper anyway? [Brooks Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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He's not a 'doper' by most definitions.

I'm not a druggie because getting blotto on alcohol doesn't 'count', and neither does a lot of peoples penchant for chugging Ibuprofen, drinking coffee, etc.

If you are happy for me to consider you a druggie because 'you' pop pills (e.g. over-the-counter painkillers, anitinflammatories, etc), can't go without the caffeine/nicotine/alcohol fix, etc, etc, then sure, he's a doper. BTW, I get drunk, like most, but I have never in my whole life, ever felt the 'need for a drink' as so many people like to put it, and I'm English (we are supposed to (do) have a problem with this from many an American's eyes). Most people like to think they need these things to get 'through the day', therefore it's enhancing. However, most people won't consider you a druggie because it is legal (and thus socially acceptable) and this is where BW falls for me. If Sky are doing this for purely performance-enhancing reasons (I have no idea if they are...like others have mentioned, he could have taken this drug in the off-season (perfectly legal to do this without a TUE) if he was in a warm climate where his allergies were triggering asthma), then you can bet your life that every other team is also.

I realised this 'early' on, that people push the boundaries. When I was younger I was a very good T & F athlete. I was also very good academically and didn't train with the high performance squad because I couldn't at the times they trained (this is in the UK so a different set-up than the States). I show up at a national meet and we are staying at a youth hostel, 6 to a room, and out come all these supplements and shit from everyones bags. Me, I had a bag full of sweets cos I love sweets and that's what I enjoy eating. That's when I realised how naive I was in my approach, but I had never needed to look at 'things' cos I was still good enough to medal at that junior level and only training three times a week...however, it's also why I never became an Olympian, not dedicated enough and lazy (I hated training with a passion, competition was fun though).

P.S. Rappstar: I consider you no different from any other pro athlete i.e. I expect that you are pushing the boundaries as far as possible with respect to what you can get away with. You do this with all your equipment choices so it is hard for me to believe that you wouldn't elsewhere. You are not 'natural' from my definition e.g. you eat and drink what you do because you enjoy the taste and not eating 'weird shit' (e.g. smoothies that taste like someone's yacked into a glass of sawdust) for performance...unless you tell me that you take zero supplements (I probably wouldn't believe you anyway).

Personally, I want a world where people just wake up eat cereal (Sugar Puffs), have a sandwich (Coronation chicken), eat sweets (doesn't matter, all good, except peanut butter ones) then some dinner and compete. That's cos I am a natural athlete and lazy. i.e. keep it at the level of U13s before the age kids get too serious (U5s for football/soccer!!!).
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Re: Wiggins didn't break the rules - but do we consider him a doper anyway? [Magwister] [ In reply to ]
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- I have no TUEs
- I do take supplements. I'll gladly list them for you if you want. I've thought about having a section on my blog where I just list them. Thoughts from the ST peanut gallery on the value of this?

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Wiggins didn't break the rules - but do we consider him a doper anyway? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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The only reason why people would want to see your supplements is so they don't have to do the work themselves into what perhaps they should/could be taking to perform better.

I'm not suggesting anything untoward, just that most/all pros will/have to push the limits in order to be competitive. BW 'likely' did this to the extreme, and I expect VN, CF, AC (well, we know he went further), AV (ditto), Q, etc, do the same. BTW, I have no idea about TUE and triathlon and the stakes aren't to the same level and neither is the infrastructure, compared to pro cycling, so I doubt TUEs are manipulated to the same extent...but it is only a matter of time until it happens (I wouldn't be surprised if it is already there at the ITU level...those guys (Europeans) can make a lot of money from endorsements that I don't think exists to the same level for IM athletes (no Olympics - outside of the US, an Olympic (gold) medal is massive because most countries don't win 50+)).
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Re: Wiggins didn't break the rules - but do we consider him a doper anyway? [Magwister] [ In reply to ]
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Wiggins went into more detailed interview.

Basically said every TUE was legit for allergies, and used them as far back as 2008.

When questioned why he failed to mention TUE in his book since it was necessary for him to use it because of allergies:

“I didn’t mention it in the book. I’d come off a season of … I’d won everything that year. When I was writing the book I wasn’t sat there thinking, 'I’d better bring my allergies up'. I was flying on cloud nine after dominating the sport all year. It wasn’t something that I brought to mind."

Following a training camp and the British national championships, Wiggins went to see a specialist on June 28, four days before the start of that year’s Tour de France. The application would be granted, with the date of June 29.


-I am impressed they can make that quick of a judgement.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/...sthma-and-allergies/

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Wiggins didn't break the rules - but do we consider him a doper anyway? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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The SKY plot thickens. "In comp" rules are 1 day before and up until midnight of last day. Now they are finding evidence that British Cycling wants to investigate whether Wiggins took an injection immediately after a race and after doping controls on June 12, 2011. Sky said team bus had already left, fan video on YouTube apparently shows him getting on it before it left.

http://dailym.ai/2dwjV7Y

Take it for what it's worth. I think the one thing about the article, they don't seem to be trying to "get Sky" as much as get to the truth.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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