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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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snaaijert wrote:
Well, no. I'd get the new Canyon bike which will get me that pad stack easily (don't even have to get the largest frameset). Kind of a blanket statement that someone with a 700mm pad stack should just ride a road bike don't you think? S5 plus aerobar would also be about double the cost.

Of course its ridiculous to pedestal a low stack bike like that, which is why Power13's point doesn't make sense at all.

Yeah, you continue to miss the point. I already noted that there are plenty of short / tall bikes in the market. I am not advocating for every bike to be long / low. I am just advocating for MORE long / low options.

But in your ridiculous 20cm scenario, by all means, let's design bikes around the outliers with geometries that make it difficult / impossible for most people to achieve a good position.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [rmg] [ In reply to ]
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rmg wrote:
Interested to see if BMC updates the TM01 this year.

Yes.
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
snaaijert wrote:
Well, no. I'd get the new Canyon bike which will get me that pad stack easily (don't even have to get the largest frameset). Kind of a blanket statement that someone with a 700mm pad stack should just ride a road bike don't you think? S5 plus aerobar would also be about double the cost.

Of course its ridiculous to pedestal a low stack bike like that, which is why Power13's point doesn't make sense at all.


Yeah, you continue to miss the point. I already noted that there are plenty of short / tall bikes in the market. I am not advocating for every bike to be long / low. I am just advocating for MORE long / low options.

But in your ridiculous 20cm scenario, by all means, let's design bikes around the outliers with geometries that make it difficult / impossible for most people to achieve a good position.

I guess you and Canyon's marketing team have different thoughts on this matter.
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [TheFisher] [ In reply to ]
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TheFisher wrote:
rmg wrote:
Interested to see if BMC updates the TM01 this year.


Yes.

Yes, I too was hoping to see something fresh, to update my good old TM02. Damn...
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [kgro] [ In reply to ]
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kgro wrote:
TheFisher wrote:
rmg wrote:
Interested to see if BMC updates the TM01 this year.


Yes.


Yes, I too was hoping to see something fresh, to update my good old TM02. Damn...

I don't know if there's a lower model coming but I've got a friend at Eurobike who mentioned a new TT bike.
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [TheFisher] [ In reply to ]
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TheFisher wrote:
kgro wrote:
TheFisher wrote:
rmg wrote:
Interested to see if BMC updates the TM01 this year.


Yes.


Yes, I too was hoping to see something fresh, to update my good old TM02. Damn...


I don't know if there's a lower model coming but I've got a friend at Eurobike who mentioned a new TT bike.

I am looking to upgrade. Please post if any info becomes available.
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
snaaijert wrote:
Well, no. I'd get the new Canyon bike which will get me that pad stack easily (don't even have to get the largest frameset). Kind of a blanket statement that someone with a 700mm pad stack should just ride a road bike don't you think? S5 plus aerobar would also be about double the cost.

Of course its ridiculous to pedestal a low stack bike like that, which is why Power13's point doesn't make sense at all.


Yeah, you continue to miss the point. I already noted that there are plenty of short / tall bikes in the market. I am not advocating for every bike to be long / low. I am just advocating for MORE long / low options.

But in your ridiculous 20cm scenario, by all means, let's design bikes around the outliers with geometries that make it difficult / impossible for most people to achieve a good position.

My ridiculous 20cm scenario was prompted by you referencing that ridiculous Shiv TT geo to prove that long and low bikes can be adapted to short and tall but not the other way around. That was hardly convincing. Notice that nowhere in my posts am I saying that you should ride a short and tall bike and try to make it to fit you. I accept that there are different geometries and that we all can't ride every bike we want. Let's not forget Canyon has the spiffy Speedmax SLX for you, that I can't fit on. Don't be greedy.

As far as not designing bikes around outliers in geometries...With you 100% there! Which is probably why you're not seeing as many long/low geo bikes anymore. I'm not really the outlier here, you are. As kgro said, bike companies are catching on and positioning their geo's accordingly.
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [kgro] [ In reply to ]
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kgro wrote:
TheFisher wrote:
kgro wrote:
TheFisher wrote:
rmg wrote:
Interested to see if BMC updates the TM01 this year.


Yes.


Yes, I too was hoping to see something fresh, to update my good old TM02. Damn...


I don't know if there's a lower model coming but I've got a friend at Eurobike who mentioned a new TT bike.


I am looking to upgrade. Please post if any info becomes available.

You could get glimpses at it at Eurobike.
I asked the BMC guys and they said no launch date was set. But maybe they didn't know.
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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Are my points making loud "whooshing" sounds or just kind of a "low whistle" as they sail over your head?

My point re: the Shiv TT was not that it was the ideal geo. you said
Quote:
But you can't make a bike that's too long shorter. So you'd have to take an even smaller bike to get the reach to fit and then the pedestal is likely going to be ridiculously tall
. That is not true, as the Shiv TT illustrates since all their bikes have the same stack. Go longer, go shorter, it doesn't matter. The stack is the same....

But don't take my word for it....guys like Dan and Jim @ ERO are saying the same thing. Short / tall bikes are limiting fit concepts.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
Are my points making loud "whooshing" sounds or just kind of a "low whistle" as they sail over your head?

My point re: the Shiv TT was not that it was the ideal geo. you said
Quote:
But you can't make a bike that's too long shorter. So you'd have to take an even smaller bike to get the reach to fit and then the pedestal is likely going to be ridiculously tall
. That is not true, as the Shiv TT illustrates since all their bikes have the same stack. Go longer, go shorter, it doesn't matter. The stack is the same....

But don't take my word for it....guys like Dan and Jim @ ERO are saying the same thing. Short / tall bikes are limiting fit concepts.

Are my poins going over your head? First, you've given probably the only bike where the stack does not increase as the reach does going up framesizes (and I appreciate that you brought it up as I think that's an "interesting" geo choice). I'd say that's the exception that proves the rule though. Moreover, the result even with that Shiv is that yes I can get a short reach bike, but with a super low stack! Yes I can pedestal it, but if there's one thing we can all agree on (I think?) it's that pedestaling a bike 20cm is laughable. So no, you can't really make a Shiv TT a short and tall bike. Now, I will concede that I am probably not the posterboy of a standard fit, but neither am I so far off the spectrum that my plight is simply anecdotal. Dan and Jim say that short / tall bikes are limiting fit concepts. I agree they are. Are they also saying long and low bikes fit everyone?

Anywho, I think we will continue to see each other's points fly by so perhaps its time for some more Eurobike news, for which the topic was intended.
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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I just said that I am not pointing to the Shiv TT as the "ideal" geo!! I brought it up as an illustration of the concept, not the specifics. You can have a bike that uses the same stack across all sizes and pedestal up from there. Add any stack onto the Shiv TT that you want, it doesn't matter. That does not mean that I think the actual get of the Shiv TT is the "right" one.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [gd28] [ In reply to ]
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******Just realised that some of the images in this post are rotated but not sure how to fix it..will reorient as soon as I figure it out *****

OK, so went on a daytrip to Eurobike yesterday and I think I have bike-tech fatigue (although I never that that was even possible)..my mind is totally blown. My impression after digesting what I saw was that 80% was..meah..20% was eye candy and of that 20% about 10% was really interesting. Disc brakes are the new rock `n roll...there were gravel bikes a`plenty but no earth shattering tri focused stuff. I did see the infamous Parlee Tri bike with disc brakes and I have to say it was very well executed - it was very clean with not a cable showing to the wind but I wouldn`t shell out for it.

Of the tri-bikes there were three that caught my eye. The first was the new Storck aero2 Platinum G2 - that was a thing of beauty weighing in at only 6.8kg ! the front and rear brake calipers were very nice and extremely well integrated into the frame...however, the thing that left me feeling disappointed by the bike was the cabling...noodles!! I mean, why bother going to the trouble of such beautiful caliper integration and then throw a couple of sloppy looking noodles on there:








The second tri-bike that was just jaw-droppingly gorgeous was the new Look 796. The head tube was so narrow it was really amazing to see. Again, great front caliper integration - the rear, not so slick BB mounted job.







Another slight weird issue here was that although they had gone to great lengths to improve the aero profile of the frame - the front of the fork crown was basically flat. When I asked about this the guy at the stand just looked at me blankly and said it must be more aero than a gradually tapered fork or we wouldn`t have designed it that way...whatever...still an amazing looking bike.



The third tri-bike that I thought was worth a mention was Jan Frodenos Canyon..fresh from Roth..and I mean fresh..unwashed with splashes of spilled race nutrition down the side of the frame...Awesome! Man he was running some narrow extension spacing:







To be honest, having seen all of these bikes up close, I was most impressed with the Canyon, everything was so solidly integrated and clean..this is one that I would and may shell out for.

Most of the usual suspects had their tri-offerings there (except Cervelo, who were not there..pity as I was looking forward to asking WTF happend to the P6). Many of the top brands like Colnago were unimpressive with same `ol same `ol TRP brakes etc. Ceepo had some interesting, if not clumsy looking storage and hydration options on display:





I also kept an eye out for new gravel bike offerings but after the 20th gravel bike I sorta lost focus. There were a couple that stuck out basically from an aesthetic stant point, the first being the Colnago of Wout Van Aert complete with Dugast tubs:





Also, this pretty sweet Niner:





And my fave, the 3T Exploro LTD







In terms of other random tech - the folks at USE who brought us the TULA aero bar had a new (and to my mind more practical) aerobar..can`t remember what it`s called. The brake levers are in the more conventional orientation but are seriously narrow so, I would suspect also quite aero.



TACX deserve a mention also. If you guys have not seen the new "Magnum" treadmill already it`s definately worth a look.







This thing is AMAZING! - it`s a treadmill bike trainer that also functions as a regular running treadmill. It`s construction is very solid (think high end gym equip) and it has a display incorporated. The whole system is apparently compatible with Zwift and many of the other online systems. Apparently they have been working on this for some time and it`s not just a repurposed running treadmill. At the front of the belt, at tyre level, there is an array of sensors (you might be able to make them out from the image) that adjust the speed of the system to maintain your front wheel within a fixed position on the belt. That way you don`t fly off the front or the back. The guys at TACX were awesome and actually let me have a go..and now I want one :-( the riding expereince was phenominal...initially not unlike the sensation of riding rollers but as the terrain on the screen changed, the sensation of elevation and realistic road feel was unlike any trainer I have ever ridden. I didn`t manage riding out of the saddle but I imagine with a bit of practice it would be easy.



The Magnum will be available in November at a mere $8000 including installation by TACX (insert eyes popping out emoticon). Anyone want to give me 8 grand for a lightly used NEO :-)

I will add a few more bits and pieces after I`ve had a chance to sift through some more images on my phone.

All the best,

Niall
Last edited by: Behan: Sep 4, 16 6:34
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [Behan] [ In reply to ]
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Oops..nearly forgot the Eddy Merckx 525...available in a variety of colors and configurations. As with many of the other manufacturers you have the option of disc brakes. These were attractive looking bikes with cool seat stay details:









I really liked the fork/head tube profile on the 525

They did not appear to have the san remo on display.
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [Behan] [ In reply to ]
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The Magnum looks amazing but $8,000?!!!!!
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [kgro] [ In reply to ]
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Indeed BMC has a new TT bike coming.



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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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The hardware on this carbon fiber stem is one of the niftiest things I've seen thus far. Manufacturers like Specialized and Trek should try to do something similar for their seat post clamps.

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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I don't care what people say about discs, the new Parlee looks hot! I wonder if it could accommodate the new Enve 4.5 AR wheelset with 28mm tires.

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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [Behan] [ In reply to ]
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In regards to the Storck, WORST BRAKES EVER. I had the same ones on my Fascenario 0.6 and besides being impossible to setup correctly (the front took 2 of us 3 hours to do) there is no toe-in on either front or rear. This means that they scream like a raped banshee regardless of what wheels or pads you use. Also you won't be able to fit wider than 21mm wheels on the bike. Plus in terms of aero credentials there are none worth mentioning.
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Of course its ridiculous to pedestal a low stack bike like that,

haven't read all the responses on this but I can think of 1 very important reason.

To make it more aerodynamic vs having the pads on the base bar

Brian Stover USAT LII
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [TheFisher] [ In reply to ]
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Details ?
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [rmg] [ In reply to ]
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http://www.bikerumor.com/...-head-unit/#comments

Stages Computer

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: The 2016 Eurobike Thread - August 31 - September 4 [Behan] [ In reply to ]
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[quote Behan
OK, so went on a daytrip to Eurobike yesterday and I think I have bike-tech fatigue (although I never that that was even possible)..my mind is totally blown. My impression after digesting what I saw was that 80% was..meah..20% was eye candy and of that 20% about 10% was really interesting. Disc brakes are the new rock `n roll...there were gravel bikes a`plenty but no earth shattering tri focused stuff. I did see the infamous Parlee Tri bike with disc brakes and I have to say it was very well executed - it was very clean with not a cable showing to the wind but I wouldn`t shell out for it.

And my fave, the 3T Exploro LTD








I will add a few more bits and pieces after I`ve had a chance to sift through some more images on my phone.
All the best,

Niall[/quote]
How funny! That's the actual bike I used to commute on while I was in Germany, right down to the orange wristband on the handlebar to let me get in and out of the show with product. We stayed in Lindau and rode the 40km back and forth each day mixing up the route and surface where we could. Small world; amazing bike. Sorry we didn't have the opportunity to meet in person.

-SD

-SD

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era
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