I'm also looking at Flo wheels for my wife (similar weight) and am leaning towards the carbon 45f-60r.


With regards to braking, I had no issues with braking using the new carbon Flo90 in IMC last week (rear was an older Flo alu+carbon fairing). I tested the rim's braking performance coming down Callahan at 70+ km/h I had to brake hard to avoid piling into the back end of a group of riders riding three across the road.

I'll start off by saying I think Chris and the Flo guys are very smart and nice and I was rooting for them when they came out with carbon clinchers. As a rule, I don't ride non structural carbon wheels because I find the compliance unacceptable. Once you really rail into a corner over jarring road turbulence with stiff carbon clinchers, alloy just doesn't feel the same. You have to be experienced and discerning to feel this, but it's decidedly palpable. For those who can't detect it, by all means, go aluminum brake track. Peasant.

So when Flo joined the CC crowd, like all you other lemmings, I picked up a pair. I wanted to believe that Flo had developed an aerodynamically superior option that was tubeless ready with decent hubs for $1200. It's just not the case, and here's the obvious answer...THE BRAKE TRACK.

I feel like such a fool for believing that these guys could get it right on the first try...the thing at which so many other companies have tried and failed. This is an area Zipp/SRAM has been refining for over a decade, and I thought Flo could just nail it right off the bat. Let me tell you: they didn't. It's acceptable in the dry and abysmal in the wet. I have owned many many wheels, and with the Flo pads in dry conditions, it's Williams- and Reynolds-esque. In the wet, it's China carbon awful. Even looking at the track, you can tell it's no good at all. It's embarrassing to say, but if you look at the wear on the Flos, they grind down and scratch just as easily as my China things, which were $125 each on DHGate. Run your finger across a Flo track that has been in harsh conditions, and you can literally feel the groove in the track that a piece of dirt caused. So awful.

If you've inspected Zipp tracks up close, the carbon weave is a different character/caliber relative to the rest of the wheel--the carbon is harder, dissipates heat better, and is scratch resistant. In general the braking is still terrible compared to alloy tracks, but it's the best I've had, and it is so much better than the new Flos. If you are the athlete who swims only in lime seltzer and refuses to train or race in adverse conditions, maybe these wheels are for you. But I am the type of person who rides in all sorts of conditions and all through the midwest winter. I have competed in two 70.3s this year with rain, so I need my wheels to perform reliably across all conditions. They need to brake properly and not look like shit after I use them, especially if I pay north of $1,000 for them. And I'm willing to pay a bit more to make sure they are solid.

Zipps are possible the douchiest piece of kit I have, but I own them and ride them because they are superior. And as I've mentioned, they aren't that expensive. I bought a brand new 404 rear and a brand new 808 front for under $730 from probikekit last week...at the same time, you could get an NSW 808 front for under $1k using the discounts. The cost of a new item isn't the retail price...it's what retailers charge for that new item. Flos are $1200 direct to consumer always. Zipps are heavily discounted off retail, often to the tune of 50%. At any given time in the classifieds, you can pick up a set that are essentially new for $1400 shipped. That's just the going rate for this product in the entirely over saturated market of high-end carbon clinchers.

After my experience with the new Flos, I morphed my 606 set into sets of 404s (for the road bike) and 808s (for the TT bike) by picking up the aforementioned 808 front and a 404 rear. I'm dumping my Flos in the classifieds upon some unsuspecting lemming. PM me if you are interested. I'm selling them for $1150 shipped.

Your mileage may very.

Well that's a very good assessment. I will look forward to more wet-braking reviews, but it sounds like you gave them your best effort.

Matt

That's a little surprising to read, given Flo's rather bold claims about their braking performance in their blog and FAQ:
http://flocycling.blogspot.com/2016/04/flo-cycling-carbon-clincher-brake-track.html
http://www.flocycling.com/faq.php


Can anyone else chime in with their opinions on the braking performance of the Flo carbon clinchers?

I have not ridden wet yet, but Flo dry is awesome. Equal to my old aluminum rims. I think there is a crapton of urban legend about CC braking performance of the current crop of wheels. (It probably did suck 5 years ago.) Or, maybe there are just a lot of bad mechanics out there who do not know how to properly maintain brakes.

I would love to see some objective comparison analysis of braking (coefficients of friction, lbs. of applied braking force, dry, wet, etc.).

Since you are anonymous on here, I'm not quite sure who you are. As always, we invite anyone with questions or concerns about our products to contact us directly. That way if there is an issue, we can try and solve it knowing all of the facts, instead of trying to guess what happened based on comments on a forum. This solution is also better than having people sell what they are claiming is a "defective" product in the classified section.

Getting to the brake tracks. I'll start by saying that all brake tracks (aluminum and carbon) wear. This is simply because of friction. I'll add that the conditions in which you ride, and the type of braking that you do, can easily change the rate at which the wearing occurs. For example, if you ride on wet roads with a lot of sand and/or debris, and you get that debris on your brake tracks and then do a lot of braking, you can scratch/wear your brake track. You can also get rocks/debris stuck in your brake pad, which can cause scratching as you grind it into your brake track. This is the equivalent of rubbing a rock or sand paper on your brake tracks, and will result in accelerated wear on either carbon or aluminum wheels.

Most of what we have seen in this case is surface scratching. Surface scratching is a small mark in the epoxy resin, and is much different then actually wearing through the resin and carbon ply. It is important to note the a mild surface scratch doesn't mean your rim is ruined. A ruined brake track would have the ply breaking apart, or would show warpage or delamination from heat.

My first recommendation is to contact us directly and we can assess what is going on. I'll also add that if you are riding on really dirty roads in the wet, you'll need to be carful of how much debris you are grinding into your brake tracks. Be sure to clean your pads frequently as well. Again, this applies to both carbon and aluminum braking surfaces.

---

Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

Come on...really? This is simply an absurd statement. Not even the best of the best carbon clincher brake tracks are 'equal' to aluminum. You're out of your mind.

Really. I was nervous, but very much surprised by how good they were. I am also a very good mechanic and a former criterium and road racer. So, that is why I think there is either a lot of urban legend out there around braking now. Or bad mechanics. Or people who simply cannot feel their braking and simply parrot what they have heard because that is all they know.

Chris just ignore this guy. He trolls these pages calling people names, ridiculing products, and trying to incite quarrels with the other readers. Keep doing what your doing. I think I can speak for most the so called "lemmings" on here when I say that we appreciate the value you provide with high quality products, data, and resources.

She just ordered Flo 45/45. She is really excited to get them and try them in our next race. It was a lot of fun talking to Jon and placing the order.

I can't wait to borrow these 1450 gram babies for American Zoffingen!!!

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law