Motivation, dedication, attention to detail, flexibility, can-do attitude, willingness to risk failure, ability to persevere.

A person with those qualities tends to succeed in endurance sport.

Most everything else is trainable, unless we're talking strictly about podium spots.

I would have to disagree. Doesn't VO2 Max simply measure aerobic capacity? In which case physical ability and condition needs to be considered, as does mental discipline, human spirit, etc. What if you have a VO2 Max comparable to Lance Armstrong's, but you don't have the discipline to work out, won't deal with the pain, or won't persevere when things get tough? Then you have a failure with huge potential, and the world is full of them.

Your model is scary because based on what you propose, if my VO2 Max is low, I shouldn't even bother participating. But what if my cycling or running efficiency is better than yours? Then I could be faster than you even with a lower VO2 Max.

I think the only way to find out if you have potential in triathlon is to do triathlons. Any model based on a single test ignores human spirit and determination, which is what gets you to the finish line.

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Sorry ya'all but testing like Vo2 max is one of the tests used to eleminate many atheletes. I had a friend run through the OTC a decade ago, and if you didn't post the numbers your days were numbered. I have to agree with this method as they can't waste their time on everyone and potential output is a good measure. After that an athlete has to bring all the other good to the table to be a champ. I remember doing alot of heart rate training with this "hopefull" and no matter what we did he had a 5-10 bpm lowere reading than I did despite my being 8 yrs older. At the end of rides this number would get worse until I was cooked, and cardiac drift had yet to do him in. I certainly had more drive and desire but it was quite obvious he had more going for him than me (he can't sprint though and I can--so there!) Today we still ride and he is head and shoulders better than me and most who come up against him. Call reality scary, but it shouldn't be something that stops one from doing something. The whole list of numbers between me and number 1 could also be a deterent and cause me to take on a why even try attitude. Unless your getting paid, being a bottom feeder can be just as fun and rewarding. I can occasionally take minutes off a run or ride and the good guys only get seconds, and still loose. I do this to improve me not worry about the numbers.

If you're talking about potential to achieve world-class level in triathlon, then VO2Max is a good way to start measuring your potential. Based on a VO2Max test, an experienced coach or exercise physiologist can determine whether your potential is good for endurance sports, based on age-based progression charts.

But VO2Max is not everything. Some other physiological variables are also important. Also there are some antropometric characteristics that might limit make you more adapted to the physical efforts specific to triathlon racing, such as height, weight, arm span to height ratio and more. And lastly, specific phsycological characteristics are necessary to be a sucessful world-class athlete.



Paulo

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Lew Kidder (I believe) has some specific criteria he looks for potential in a triathelte. Becuase people are most likely coming into tri from a different sport he looks for past acheivement in previous sports, specifically in the swim and the run... he is of course lookign at potential in Olympic (draft legal) style tris. I think that in absence of VO2 testing past achievement would be a good place to start...

HIs theories have been the source of amny a debate on ST... Anyone who is interested could potntially search the forum for his comments and the responses.

What about form?

I have a friend who's 16, and just started doing Tri's. He was swimmer for a few years prior to that, but he has never run more than 3 miles at a time.

The first practice he came to, I was amazed by his run form. It was beautiful and looked really efficient. I don't know his times, but he's somewhere around 19:30 for 5k (on about 8 months of run training, with none prior to that). Don't know his vo2max.

Can that alone be an indicator (run form, speedy progression over a short amount of time)

I'd say, for example, if you are riding in your car out on the highway, and you look at your speedometer, and it shows you are driving 65 miles an hour, and there's a guy, over to your right, running over on the shoulder of the road, and he's been keeping up with your car the last eight or nine miles, on foot. Then, you hit the gas and you don't see him anymore.

That is, until about eight or nine minutes later, when that same guy, who must have quit running and gotten on his bike, then passes your car on his bike, going 85 miles an hour.

That's potential.

But can he swim?

A good V02 Max is a requirement of a good athlete but will a 76 beat a 69 and lose to an 83 ? Hard to say. When he was a punk Lance showed is potential by riding grown men (like me) off his wheel in the East Texas bike scene for a couple years then blowing the doors off the Tridudes.
Going fast is measuring potential, High Vo2 max is a product of going fast. When we did some testing of PE students in the late 70's we found a non athlete kid to have like a 70 V02 max untrained. In the PE "Jogging101" fitness class he popped a high 34 min 10k after one semester training, but never made a career of sports. Oh well Aloha G

The primary ingredient is desire. The secondary is determination. Everything else is well behind that. Ask a kid with cancer who has won five Tours de France.

Desire and determination are born in adversity.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

That same guy with a lot of determination who won the Tour de France five times also has a VO2 max that is through the roof.

VO2 is important to determine potential, but it's really more like your ticket into the show. once inside, there are plenty of others with a VO2 like yours or better, and things like lactate threshold and economy really start coming into play. studies of runners have shown some guys with phenominal VO2max measures, but didn't get out of olympic trials, while other guys significantly lower VO2max winning olympic medals.

at the end of the day, there is so much that can effect your potential that it's nearly impossible to give one single value that will determine performance across a population.

sad as it is though, there are some people with all the heart in the world who will never be world class, because their numbers are too low, and others with phenominal numbers who could care less, and will never be great either (great referring to impressive performances, and nothing else in this case).

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mckenzie

Potential?

Velocity (on the run) or power (on the bike) at VO2max is pretty much the gold standard. Measures both aerobic capacity and how much speed and/or power all that O2 is buying you (i.e. economy).

Thresholds are more of a measure of how much of one's potential he/she is taking advantage of through training.

Thresholds are trainable, a huge aerobic engine and natural speed and power are pretty much geneticly determined.

That same guy with a lot of determination who won the Tour de France five times also has a VO2 max that is through the roof.

Great point. Lance Armstrong could half-ass his way through practice and likely still be better than 99.9% of all cyclists in the world. His great desire is what makes him a "Champion among champions".

Professional sports is full of guys that prove that great genetics + average desire beats the heck out of great desire + average genetics. Average genetics doesn't even make it on the field (or even to a tryout).

VO2 is important to determine potential, but it's really more like your ticket into the show. once inside, there are plenty of others with a VO2 like yours or better, and things like lactate threshold and economy really start coming into play.

Another good point. At the highest levels (like the top 10 elite athletes), the major stuff will be similar and it's the "little things" that can make the difference. But, the basic genetic difference between those top 10 and the rest of us is enough to almost classify them as a seperate species.

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Endurance sports seem to be slightly more favorable to desire, but still natural ability and response to training trump "the little engine that could".

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Potential is unproven ability. Unproven ability gets you nothing.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

So it seems most people agree that a high vo2max and lots of desire/determination is the key, but what exactly influences your energy consumption?

I've searched google, but none of the article seems to focus on makes one person have a higher vo2, while another has a lower one? Max heart rate? Fiber type? Which?

read this, see if it helps:

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/vo2max.htm

I've read somewhere that an athlete who has the potential for a high Vo2 (say 80+) will have a vo2max of around 65-70 untrained. Does this mean that if he never trained, and one day you'll take him off the couch, he'll be able to run a 17 minute 5k (or something along those lines), or does it mean he'll run a normal time (say 20-25), but his oxygen consumption will be very high.

Can someone explain this please?