Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

So do Shimano spiders and chainrings fit together like mega CRAPPOLA ? (pics)
Quote | Reply
.
Am I the only one who sees the weird alignment issues in nearly every Shimano crankset?




Everyone seems to love the high-end Shimano stuff - Doesn't anyone else see the uneven gaps and broken contours that show up even in the official product photos?


.
Last edited by: jackie11111: Jun 29, 16 21:16
Quote Reply
Re: So do Shimano spiders and chainrings fit together like mega CRAPPOLA ? (pics) [jackie11111] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Function before fashion.

***
Quote Reply
Re: So do Shimano spiders and chainrings fit together like mega CRAPPOLA ? (pics) [Marlin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Marlin wrote:
Function before fashion.

IMO, that's fine for Sora or Tiagra, but not acceptable on their top of the line groupset. It is possible to have both.
Quote Reply
Re: So do Shimano spiders and chainrings fit together like mega CRAPPOLA ? (pics) [jackie11111] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No, you're not. I had a minor crash a few weeks ago and was able to keep riding, but when I went to clean and tune up my bike afterward I freaked out and thought I had cracked the spider. Turns out it just looks like shit... Never noticed until then.
Quote Reply
Re: So do Shimano spiders and chainrings fit together like mega CRAPPOLA ? (pics) [Marlin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You are making the assumption that there is a functional driver for the design. What if it is just sloppy design or cost-cutting manufacturing?
Quote Reply
Re: So do Shimano spiders and chainrings fit together like mega CRAPPOLA ? (pics) [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
exxxviii wrote:
You are making the assumption that there is a functional driver for the design. What if it is just sloppy design or cost-cutting manufacturing?

Seems likely it would be some cost-cutting manufacturing at work.
Quote Reply
Re: So do Shimano spiders and chainrings fit together like mega CRAPPOLA ? (pics) [jackie11111] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's by design so when you are putting out 750+ watts they line up.
Quote Reply
Re: So do Shimano spiders and chainrings fit together like mega CRAPPOLA ? (pics) [jackie11111] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Looks a bit off, but doesn't bother me in the slightest.
Quote Reply
Re: So do Shimano spiders and chainrings fit together like mega CRAPPOLA ? (pics) [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TriTamp wrote:
exxxviii wrote:
You are making the assumption that there is a functional driver for the design. What if it is just sloppy design or cost-cutting manufacturing?


Seems likely it would be some cost-cutting manufacturing at work.


I can practically guarantee that there's no cost saving in that ugliness other than not having engineers that know how to design smooth organic surfaces. That kind of modelling is a very niche skill reserved for industrial designers (people who specialize in product and automobile body designs) but most mechanical engineers THINK they can do it, and the result is products like what you've shown here. I've seen more than my fair share of fugly CAD from engineers with many years of experience, but no training in this type of modelling. In the engineering realm it doesn't seem to throw up any red flags.

Another thing that may have occurred, is that it WAS originally designed by a group of industrial designers based on aesthetics, but once the surfaces were handed to engineering and they ran FEA optimizations the changes only propagated to the chainring interface with a positional constraint, and no consideration was given to realign the crank arm surfaces to have tangency (and G2, or even G3 criteria).
Last edited by: codygo: Jun 30, 16 14:40
Quote Reply
Re: So do Shimano spiders and chainrings fit together like mega CRAPPOLA ? (pics) [codygo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
codygo wrote:
I can practically guarantee that there's no cost saving in that ugliness other than not having engineers that know how to design smooth organic surfaces. That kind of modelling is a very niche skill reserved for industrial designers (people who specialize in product and automobile body designs) but most mechanical engineers THINK they can do it, and the result is products like what you've shown here. I've seen more than my fair share of fugly CAD from engineers with many years of experience, but no training in this type of modelling. In the engineering realm it doesn't seem to throw up any red flags.

Another thing that may have occurred, is that it WAS originally designed by a group of industrial designers based on aesthetics, but once the surfaces were handed to engineering and they ran FEA optimizations the changes only propagated to the chainring interface with a positional constraint, and no consideration was given to realign the crank arm surfaces to have tangency (and G2, or even G3 criteria).
Looks more to me like there is a nice design there, but they are not correctly compensating for the shrinkage that occurs as the metal cools from the hot forging process. Aggravated because it is hollow. It doesn't shrink right at the edges of the chainring and spider because there's a bulkhead there, so you get some pull-back and change in angle behind the interfaces. In the spider arms you see some ripple, that definitely looks like shrinkage artifacts.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
Quote Reply
Re: So do Shimano spiders and chainrings fit together like mega CRAPPOLA ? (pics) [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ergopower wrote:
Looks more to me like there is a nice design there, but they are not correctly compensating for the shrinkage that occurs as the metal cools from the hot forging process. Aggravated because it is hollow. It doesn't shrink right at the edges of the chainring and spider because there's a bulkhead there, so you get some pull-back and change in angle behind the interfaces. In the spider arms you see some ripple, that definitely looks like shrinkage artifacts.


I thought Shimano Hollowtech was cold-forged.

In any case they have been forging aluminum for so many decades that I find it hard to believe they are not correctly compensating for shrinkage.
Quote Reply
Re: So do Shimano spiders and chainrings fit together like mega CRAPPOLA ? (pics) [jackie11111] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Optical illusion or poor photoshop in the pictures you posted.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
Quote Reply
Re: So do Shimano spiders and chainrings fit together like mega CRAPPOLA ? (pics) [Marlin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yeah its really not noticeable when you stand more than foot away, they look fine on my bike nothing like the pictures. Unless you put your face within a foot of the chaining you cant see the alignment issues at all.

2019 T-Rex Tri Series
Quote Reply
Re: So do Shimano spiders and chainrings fit together like mega CRAPPOLA ? (pics) [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yeah, you're right, but they're made in two pieces (front and back) and welded together. Weld must be right at the back corner of the arms on the spider and rings. I still think the slight distortions from the OP's photos look heat-related.



Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
Quote Reply