"yaw angle doesn't mean much on an indoor track."

don't say that to felt ;-)

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Or anyone who races at the Carson velodrome (where Felt spends a lot of time).

Racing there on an 808 or front disc I've occasionally had brief moments of panic from getting blown around. And I'm 175lb.

I think measured up to ~9 deg IIRC. But in general, on average, it isn't much, but it isn't nothing. In a 4000m pursuit, the left side of the bike travels a shorter distance than the right, no?

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Make it really wide and see 3 small elements or make it really narrow and see one larger element. Like almost all things, it's better until it isn't.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

It's funny you keep saying that, but I've done thousands and thousands of laps there and have never felt anything like that. Even with double discs, I certainly never feel anything from the side. A large group of riders, though, does create quite a bit of air flow, so I can certainly see getting blown around a bit during a group session. It's always interesting to watch the flags hanging down from the ceiling move in the presence of a large group.

For the OP, Cyclenutz and Josh have provided the answer. We have plenty of data on the IO vs other wheels, and it's certainly not the fastest, but it's stiff and trusted so the athletes choose to use it over other, more aerodynamic, choices. Plus, there's money involved so...

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Yeah, I think your experiences can be trusted more than mine. But I'm talking mostly about IP with a front disc, only one other person on the track. And only a couple of times. Maybe it was some situation where certain doors were open that usually aren't or something. And a lot of the times in IP my upper body will very relaxed on the straights once in steady-state so it doesn't take a lot of disruption to notice it. I guess I keep bringing it up because it was surprising to me indoors.

Reminds me I need to go get tested by you! If just to validate my own outdoor velodrome testing.

Well I hope they have that Olympic velodrome finished by now then, they will need to make some extra room in the schedule to fit that event in ;)

Well that test distance was used to tare out other variables, they'll only go 1/1000th that distance in Rio ;)
-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Awesome - now I know what to buy after my C50 wheels.
Thanks!

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Jens Ã…gesen
http://bookanaut.com

So is it correct to say that the wide forks have proved to have an advantage with the 3/5 spoke wheels but are of no advantage with a regular wire spoke wheel?

http://www.planetx.co.uk/...bon-aero-front-wheel

WD :-)

We've done extensive work for front wheels on track specific bikes. A tub that's too big kills the IO, a 19mm Pista Evo CL (or CS, 1-1.5w slower) is ideal for it and will allow it to beat some discs too.

We've got a prototype disc that's similar to a Comete that's very fast, incredibly wide and too wide to be used on the back in a bike like the Cervelo T4 (same as the Comete, rubs on the chainstays unless you have a super long chain).

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AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

Love this story, thanks for sharing! Do. You recall what tire was on the H3?

First, Xavier is right, all of these composite spoked wheels are incredibly sensitive to tire..I'd like to see the new H3+ and see if that helps, but for the H3 or iO, you have to have a tire that caliper's out below 20mm to get what you want. If you have a CS or one of the special national team track tires that Vittoria supplies for critical events, then you are in good shape..

For my story about Contador, he was using special FMB tires that were supplied for him. They measured at 22mm wide with calipers which Alberto and his mechanic Faustino felt was the 'sweet spot' as it was wider than 21 for better rolling resistance and grip, yet narrower than a 23mm for better aero. The combination of the 22mm casing and the post-applied construction of the FMB tires are a bad combination for narrow wheels like this.

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http://www.SILCA.cc
Check out my podcast, inside stories from more than 20 years of product and tech innovation from inside the Pro Peloton and Pro Triathlon worlds!
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Would you say that holds true for any front wheel on track, going with a narrower tire (19mm CL in your example) is faster, or just going narrower with specific wheels, based on the width at the tire interface?

On road, the tire widths have been trending wider (making a round as opposed to oblong contact patch), so I'm curious about how track application differs? (Realizing that track has far fewer variables, smooth, consistent surface, regulated temperatures, etc.)

I'm researching front wheels/tires for track right now, trying to understand the substantive differences between options with wheels first.

Here are my wheel candidates (not in order of expected performance):

Hed Jet Plus 6 or 9 tubeless clincher
Zipp 808 tubular
Mavic IO
FFWD tri-spoke
FFWD 5-spoke

Based on wheel selection, then optimal tire model and width must be selected based on some rationale.

Interesting discussion..

News to me

For my story about Contador, he was using special FMB tires that were supplied for him. They measured at 22mm wide with calipers which Alberto and his mechanic Faustino felt was the 'sweet spot' as it was wider than 21 for better rolling resistance and grip, yet narrower than a 23mm for better aero.

Wow, that baffles me that someone can obsess over 1 mm of difference in their tire and yet, when provided with actual data, they choose to stick their head in the sand like an idiot. Unbelievable. If you are going to bother doing any testing, the first thing you have to toss out is your preconceived notions about what is going to work. The truth (of the power meter or wind tunnel) shall set you free.

Not that I am saying a small difference in tire size does not matter. I ditched some 20mm Bontrager Aerowing tires that had a higher crr (according to Tom A.) and tried a plan ol' Conti GP4000 with a better crr and they tested exactly the same. I would presume the 2-2.5 mm extra width of the Conti cancelled out the crr advantage.

No definitely not - just for the IO and some others but always relating to rim width.

On the track the best discs will always beat out five spokes/deep sections etc., but the application of them depends on the event and skill of the rider. Doing a standing lap for start of the TS for example you might be better off with a superlight (and still pretty aero) front rather than a front disc, especially if it's stiffer/tracks better round turn 1

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AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

That's a good consideration. In IP and TP, the same standing start carries important need for quickly ramping up to speed. Given that an IO is priced beyond what most mortals can afford, what would you consider a lightweight front wheel with good aero qualities for dual-purpose Track and TT/Tri use?