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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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What science did he disagree with? Mostly he disagreed with the consensus opinion derived from the science, not the science itself. He used the existing scientific work to make his points. Did you watch the vid?

He disagreed with the science derived from the data. In science we don't simply say, "well, here's the results of the experiments," and then dismiss any conclusions drawn as merely "opinions."



-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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racin_rusty wrote:
I had 4 doctors misdiagnose me last year, another got it right.

That's disappointing, but not unbelievable. It's also a pretty good example of the fallacy of argument from anecdotal evidence:
"It's often much easier for people to believe someone's testimony as opposed to understanding complex data and variation across a continuum. Quantitative scientific measures are almost always more accurate than personal perceptions and experiences, but our inclination is to believe that which is tangible to us, and/or the word of someone we trust over a more 'abstract' statistical reality."

Duffy has a bad dose of it. He knows that all science is rubbish, because some scientists once made his wife cry.

If tens of thousands of scientists had studied your condition for decades, and 98% of them misdiagnosed you, that would be as remarkable as unlikely.

racin_rusty wrote:
You clearly have no idea of the significance of who this guy is and more importantly was.


This one, by contrast, is the fallacy of appeal to authority.

As pointed out, there is no significance to who the guy is or was. He doesn't have good data. That's the issue. He wants you to believe that as a former environmentalist he is more credible. You seem to have fallen for that. If you insist on being impressed by his background, then it is actually who this guy is that is more telling than who he was. He has enjoyed a longer career as a paid lobbyist and shill for industries that Greenpeace has opposed than he had as an environmentalist. He is paid by industry groups who hope that the fact he once worked for Greenpeace will impress those with limited critical thinking skills. That, in turn, wouldn't matter if he had anything of scientific merit to contribute.

As Halvard says, the scientific process is well understood. He doesn't participate in that process. He's involved in the lobbying and PR process. Fine. Everybody has to make a living somehow, I suppose, but he isn't much use as a source of scientific knowledge.


http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/about/history/Patrick-Moore-background-information/
(and no, I don't look to Greenpeace for scientific insights, either. They also are engaged in lobbying and PR)
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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BarryP wrote:
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What didn't you like about that data?


You made an argument based on a correlation of two pieces of data, not a scientific study. I can show you a graph, for example, the shows a direct inverse relationship between the global temperature and the number of pirates at sea.


Arrrr... we needs more Pirates! Why have you been holding this information back? Holy shit Barry!

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
racin_rusty wrote:
Could you please point me to an explanation of the anomaly that he points out, you haven't bothered to do that. Instead you've declared one of the most eco-activist left winged of the boomer generation to be a right winger only worthy of Fox news. Put away the shovel, seriously. You clearly have no idea of the significance of who this guy is and more importantly was.


When it comes to data in science, the significance of the person doesnt mean shit. There have been some peominent scientists who espouse some wacky, unscientific ideas and they get shit on for it.

so what your saying is that in the climate science community you must toe the line on consensus or you will be ostracized? Doesn't seem like that's how science is supposed to work.
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [jwbeuk] [ In reply to ]
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jwbeuk wrote:
veganerd wrote:
racin_rusty wrote:
Could you please point me to an explanation of the anomaly that he points out, you haven't bothered to do that. Instead you've declared one of the most eco-activist left winged of the boomer generation to be a right winger only worthy of Fox news. Put away the shovel, seriously. You clearly have no idea of the significance of who this guy is and more importantly was.


When it comes to data in science, the significance of the person doesnt mean shit. There have been some peominent scientists who espouse some wacky, unscientific ideas and they get shit on for it.


so what your saying is that in the climate science community you must toe the line on consensus or you will be ostracized? Doesn't seem like that's how science is supposed to work.


No.
Do you know what consensus mean in science.

Consensus in science happen when scientists stop arguing. Arguing is common in science. The same is to trying to find mistakes in peoples data set and in the conclusion drawn from them.
Science works different that politics, so consensus means something different.

Remember science is data driven with many lines of eveidence.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAqR9mLJrcE


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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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racin_rusty wrote:
So you're not going to provide a link to support your rebuttal. Thank you. We're done here.


Here you have a nice video describing science denial. You should watch it.
Seriously, you should watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXA777yUndQ

By the way. First sign of denial is fake expert. What do you think your source Moore is????
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [jwbeuk] [ In reply to ]
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Consensus in the scientific community does not mean: yeah, I agree. It means, well, our lab ran the same experiment, in the same conditions, independently, and we got the same or similar results. Therefore, we went from a p-value < 0.05, to <.0025...this is scientific consensus. It's based on data, careful experimental design, and data analysis, not opinion.
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
Consensus in the scientific community does not mean: yeah, I agree. It means, well, our lab ran the same experiment, in the same conditions, independently, and we got the same or similar results. Therefore, we went from a p-value < 0.05, to <.0025...this is scientific consensus. It's based on data, careful experimental design, and data analysis, not opinion.

That's just your opinion.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [SH] [ In reply to ]
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[quote
Looks like a pretty strong positive correlation between higher CO2 content and higher world grain production.[/quote]

Here's an even stronger (and equally meaningful) correlation for you:


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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [eb] [ In reply to ]
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eb wrote:
[quote
Looks like a pretty strong positive correlation between higher CO2 content and higher world grain production.



Here's an even stronger (and equally meaningful) correlation for you:

[/quote]
Is it equally meaningful if I'm arguing that global warming will make swim garments less revealing?
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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klehner wrote:



Just so we're all clear, this is an example of fraudulent climate data. You guys can't believe everything you read simply because it agrees with your biases. Do I need to explain science and critical thinking to everyone?
Last edited by: SH: Jun 27, 16 12:21
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [jwbeuk] [ In reply to ]
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so what your saying is that in the climate science community you must toe the line on consensus or you will be ostracized?

No. It means you will get shit on for shit science.

You people do realize that science isn't the same as a bunch of people arguing in the LR and picking sides, right? There's an actual process that leads to conclusions. Its not just a bunch of opinions that people are pulling out of their asses.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Halvard wrote:
racin_rusty wrote:
So you're not going to provide a link to support your rebuttal. Thank you. We're done here.


Here you have a nice video describing science denial. You should watch it.
Seriously, you should watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXA777yUndQ

By the way. First sign of denial is fake expert. What do you think your source Moore is????

Gore is an expert... politician, Suzuki is an expert TV science guy ironically with the same education as Moore. These are the 2 people most responsible for advancing AGW in North America. So where does that put us? That means AGW proponents are 2 fake experts vs. 1.
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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Gore is an expert... politician, Suzuki is an expert TV science guy ironically with the same education as Moore. These are the 2 people most responsible for advancing AGW in North America. So where does that put us? That means AGW proponents are 2 fake experts vs. 1.

You must be trolling. Are you?

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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racin_rusty wrote:
Halvard wrote:
racin_rusty wrote:
So you're not going to provide a link to support your rebuttal. Thank you. We're done here.


Here you have a nice video describing science denial. You should watch it.
Seriously, you should watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXA777yUndQ

By the way. First sign of denial is fake expert. What do you think your source Moore is????


Gore is an expert... politician, Suzuki is an expert TV science guy ironically with the same education as Moore. These are the 2 people most responsible for advancing AGW in North America. So where does that put us? That means AGW proponents are 2 fake experts vs. 1.

Again, do you understand science.

What does science say about the issue? Why is in a scientific consensus?

This is not difficult.
Check the science.

Do you know what a scientist is, what a scientific journal is, how science works?
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not debating the science here, I'm pointing out the fault of your last argument. The most visible AGW spokespeople in North America are fake experts cashing in, they're a pair of greedy ass wipes from the do as I say not as I do crowd.
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:
eb wrote:
[quote
Looks like a pretty strong positive correlation between higher CO2 content and higher world grain production.



Here's an even stronger (and equally meaningful) correlation for you:



Is it equally meaningful if I'm arguing that global warming will make swim garments less revealing?[/quote]
That's underwear not swim garments. Anti-underpants!
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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racin_rusty wrote:
I'm not debating the science here, I'm pointing out the fault of your last argument. The most visible AGW spokespeople in North America are fake experts cashing in, they're a pair of greedy ass wipes from the do as I say not as I do crowd.

No, youre just randomly chosing two people and saying theyre the most visible experts. Youre wrong on both counts.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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Oh really, go ask 20 people on the street who Michael Mann is, then ask them who Al Gore is. I'll bet 15 of them have never even heard of Michael Mann but if you ask they'll tell you Gore is an expert on AGW even though he's not.
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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racin_rusty wrote:
Oh really, go ask 20 people on the street who Michael Mann is, then ask them who Al Gore is. I'll bet 15 of them have never even heard of Michael Mann but if you ask they'll tell you Gore is an expert on AGW even though he's not.

So your argument boils down to you think most people are as misinformed as you therefore you are somehow correct?

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not debating the science here.......

No, of course you aren't. If you did that, you'd quickly lose the argument.

Instead, you are trying your best to make the most confusing asinine argument that you can possibly dream up. If you succeed, we can spend two to three pages arguing over whether or not Al Gore is a bigger quack than Patrick Moore.........WHICH IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT!

What's so sad is that Fox News and right wing radio exists to play you like a pawn, and you are just too willing to fall for it.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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racin_rusty wrote:
Oh really, go ask 20 people on the street who Michael Mann is, then ask them who Al Gore is. I'll bet 15 of them have never even heard of Michael Mann but if you ask they'll tell you Gore is an expert on AGW even though he's not.

So what do you think the science says?
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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The science says the planet is warming.
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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racin_rusty wrote:
The science says the planet is warming.

Do you accept that is true? And if so, what is causing it?

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Patrick Moore on Climate Change [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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I think the bigger point is that if he accepts that that is true, we must know why. I'm going to assume he's not done his own experiments, so he's likely relying on the data and conclusions drawn by climate scientists.

But if he doesn't accept other information that the climate scientists are reporting, the question is, how does he decide that one set of information is correct, but the other isn't. What process is he using to make this determination?

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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