I did Syracuse and hope to do LP in two years. I'll be curious to see the responses. One guy at Syracuse told me that the run course for LP was easier, just longer. If it is equal to or more difficult than Syracuse, I may never get through LP. The run course at Syracuse killed me this year.

I've never done either, but several people I train with do both every year. They all treat Syracuse as a warm-up for IMLP. It usually works well for them for what's that's worth.

I've done both. I enjoyed Placid more, perhaps because i was better prepared. Although, not being blazing hot may have had something to do with it. Hard to compare, I thought the first 15miles of Syracuse bike course was tough, constant climbing. LP has more elevation change and has the 3 bears, but overall I think it is spread out well.

As far as the run goes, I think LP run course is harder. The hill coming into town from th ski jumps is longer than the hill at Syracuse, but I don't think as steep, so there's your trade off. You have to do them both twice, so it's a toss up as to which is worse. I'm sure others will think differently. While your running Lake Placid just remind yourself how shitty the one was at Syracuse and it won't seem as bad.

As far as times, it's apples and oranges, as the full is a different beast. I did LP is less than double my Syracuse time, but weather played a big factor. It poured and thunder stormed when I did lake placid - 2014, when they stopped people from doing the second swim lap and pulled others out of the water due to the lightening. I was already on the back stretch of the 2nd lap, so I was able to finish.

Good luck and enjoy your race.

Syracuse is a great prep for LP. The bike at Syracuse is front loaded meaning the tougher part is at the beginning, not that the later part is that easy. LP has that hour long climb on the end of each lap. It's not that bad if you pace properly.
The Syracuse run (the bad part around the turnaround) is like the climb at LP coming back into town. Probably a little worse because its harder to run down. If you do ok at syracuse you'll do fine at LP. If not then you might want to dial back your pacing back a little for LP.

FWIW, I took my lessons from Syracuse and had a great day a LP.

---

A false humanity is used to impose its opposite, by people whose cruelty is equalled only by their arrogance

I've done both twice, doing Syracuse as prep for Lake Placid one year and Syracuse as prep for Mont Tremblant another year.

Swim-Obviously nothing easier than swimming in Mirror Lake with a buoy line to guide you(if you don't mind having compete with everyone else to get that line).

Bike-I think it's hard to compare. I think Lake Placid is a course that it's important to pre ride, and not because of the Keene descent, but because of the last 10-15 miles of the loop. That's where you earn your finisher's medal. The course is just a grind. There are rollers where you want to coast down the backside but then you give up some speed/momentum for going over the next one. You just need to pedal, pedal, and keep pedaling. The head wind which can be present on the second loop keeps reminding you to stay aero. At Syracuse you just play it smart the first 12 miles or so and you're good, not that the back of the course is easy(with the changes this year making it a little tougher), but not like the end of Placid.

Run-Where the two Placid climbs are placed on the second part of the loop make it tough, and then the fact, as you pointed out, that it is a marathon after 112 miles once again makes it hard for me to compare. I will say though that the second part of the Syracuse climb is the only time I have ever considered walking in a half. I actually think if I power walked up that hill I probably would have been faster than my uphill shuffle by the turnaround.

I enjoyed both events. I preferred the timing of it as a lead up for Mont Tremblant. When I did it for Placid I felt I raced too hard at Syracuse, needed a little more recovery than I had planned on, and lost a week or so of valuable training time prior to taper. Having an extra 3 weeks for Tremblant was just better for me.

Timing wise I fell under the double your half plus the hour(give or take) formula. I am your ho-hum MOP kind of guy. Good luck at Placid. Enjoy the day.

Any advice for that crazy downhill? I can't ride the course before the race and I'm looking for any good advise. Thanks.

You have to be on site 2 days before the race. Ride the downhill! Every year I end up taking friends who have not been down it before to check it out on Friday or Saturday.
Sometimes it's as simple as dropping them off at the pullout right at the top and picking them up at the bottom. Other times I'll drop them off before the lakes, but after all the climbs out of time.
It's worth it for your sanity.

Be patient the first time around. It will likely be more congested with riders and many have never descended fast before and you can never predict what they'll do.
The second lap has riders more spread out so the descent is easier. You'll likely get speeds in excess of 50mph if you allow it.

---

A false humanity is used to impose its opposite, by people whose cruelty is equalled only by their arrogance

It's worse to train on than to race on. In training, you're sequestered to the shoulder with traffic breezing by. If one of those trafficers happens to be a semi, well you'll be holding on for dear life. Even some of the smaller vehicles cause a greater disturbance in the force than you think possible. On race day, you get the shoulder plus 1.5 more lanes= spacey. The biggest issue is with athletes that, for some reason, seem to think that they should ignore the 'stay-to-the-right' rule and are just excited about how much space is available. 40 mph seems fast until you're doing 50 tucked in aero coming up upon someone doing said 40 and is hugging the left side. Be prepared to pass on the right. Discalimer: Don't actually pass on the right unless required. Just be prepared for it.

---

---

---

Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Like a previous poster said, ride the downhill on Friday. If traveling with someone have them drop you off at the pull off where the descent starts(right after the trucks use low gear sign, by the trail head). They can meet you at the bottom and you throw your bike on the rack then drive the rest of the course to get a preview.

Although you can hit 50+mph, you don't have to. I don't think it is a technical descent, and I think it can be broken down into three parts? Yes, you are descending for several miles, but there are segments where the downhill is not as steep and you can re group.

As a previous poster said the second loop will be less congested.

Have fun

Anyone have any advice about the climb? I live and train in NJ and the longest climps you can find around here are only like 2 miles give or take, but what they lack in length they make up for in grade to be sure, is this 11 mile thing really a climb or just not flat?

There's nothing even close to an 11 mile climb on the course. It's net uphill from Wilmington to LP (assuming that's what you are referring to), but there are plenty of flat sections and even numerous downhills during that stretch.

Great advise. Will include this in my race week schedule. First race I will ride on 606's (404 front / 808 back) and really need to get a good handle of this.

Thanks!

I have that ride loaded in my CycleOps and as Ironfan says it's not an 11 mile straight up climb, it's elevation but with the usual flats in between and some downhills.The downhill looks scary, though. I train in NJ too.

I'm sorry if my previous post implied that it was an 11 mile climb. It's not, just rollers as the previous poster noted, but a net elevation gain. There are down hills on the back part, but I found you want to pedal through those to carry over the next rise. As I mentioned earlier, the course is just a grind and like any ironman, if you burn too many matches on the first loop......

The downhill is completely non-technical.
It's been mostly repaved, so the frost heave ripples that used to be there are mostly gone.

I hit 57.5 mph max speed on Keene a few weeks ago, without race wheels.

As was said, have a friend/S.O./über drive you out there, roll down it, then they pick you up and go grab a beer.

The whole way back from Wilmington is not uphill the entire way.
It just feels like it is - especially on lap 2, when you're tired, and there's usually a headwind going thru High Falls Gorge area.
Enjoy!

---

float , hammer , and jog

No I have read the 11 mile climb thing elsewhere, you didn't lead me to believe it, even the ironman website course description says it.

No.

The other thing you need to be aware of and is pretty difficult to duplicate on the trainer, is the wind. As the day goes on the wind usually picks up, giving you a head wind the whole ride back into to town during the second loop.

Agreed. If I didn't I should have mentioned that in my first post. Just stay aero when you can.

I did both last year and will do same this year, Syracuse is a great warm up for Placid and packs a punch. For the bike leg at Syracuse the climbing was front loaded for first 10 - 15 miles so you had chance to recover the legs for the run as that is no joke.
This year they changed the bike course and added almost another 1000 ft of ascent not only did it have the climbs at the front end but also plenty of climbing at miles 45 - 49 also bike course was about 0.8 miles long 56.8 on my GPS. The run did not change.
Placid is more spread out so you have plenty of time to recover, just don't gun the first loop. The run at placid has the climb coming back into town, but much more spread out.