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Bike fit? Or bike fitness...
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Hi all!


I was just looking for some insight on how to target the issue regarding calf cramping on the bike. I have noticed that in most of my 70.3 races that I begin to have calf cramps on either legs in the last 70-80% of the bike leg. This obviously leaves me suffering in a really bad run. I am pretty good at keeping up my caloric/salt intake, so I assume it isn't that.


I was wondering if you guys could help me resolve this issue? Is it a lack of physical fitness/push too hard? Or is it an improper bike fit that causes it in the long term (saddle too high)? I have attached links to videos of my on my trainer. The first is me on my Kestrel which I use for longer courses, and the second is on my Cervelo suited mostly for short sprints and time trials.


Thanks!

Kestrel fit

Cervelo fit
Last edited by: iNELLEK: Jun 25, 16 4:50
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [iNELLEK] [ In reply to ]
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In my lifetime of exercise experience, calf cramping is almost always due to dehydration. Every time it has ever happened to me or any of my friends, we can always trace it to hydration. It happened to me this morning on a run, and it was because it was 10 degrees hotter than usual and I did not drink enough.

So, double-think your hydration and electrolyte plans. You might sweat more than average, or sweat more than average volume of electrolytes. A friend of mind did a sweat test a while ago and found that his perspiration contained unusually high levels of electrolytes. He way upped his electrolyte intake, and that helped revolutionize his endurance performance.
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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I have cramping problems, sometimes severe. However, mine are NOT due to dehydration or electrolyte deficiency. I know this because being so aware of the cramping has made me extremely diligent in keeping hydrated and my electrolytes up. Still, I cramp. Stretching, strength-training, and increased fitness have not yielded results, either. I am very much looking forward to trying the new Hotshot to see what that yields. Check your hydration and electrolytes, but keep in mind they might not be the problem. Good luck.
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [iNELLEK] [ In reply to ]
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iNELLEK wrote:
Hi all!


I was just looking for some insight on how to target the issue regarding calf cramping on the bike. I have noticed that in most of my 70.3 races that I begin to have calf cramps on either legs in the last 70-80% of the bike leg. This obviously leaves me suffering in a really bad run. I am pretty good at keeping up my caloric/salt intake, so I assume it isn't that.


I was wondering if you guys could help me resolve this issue? Is it a lack of physical fitness/push too hard? Or is it an improper bike fit that causes it in the long term (saddle too high)? I have attached links to videos of my on my trainer. The first is me on my Kestrel which I use for longer courses, and the second is on my Cervelo suited mostly for short sprints and time trials.


Thanks!

Kestrel fit

Cervelo fit
It's hard to say for sure whether you're calf cramping is caused by your bike fit, so I won't give an opinion there.

But judging from those videos, you definitely have a fit issue that often correlates. Your saddle is too high and you're reaching for the pedals. When you toe down like that, it shortens the achilles and the calf, contributing to those muscles tightening over time. As you tighten up, the calf is stressed as you pedal on the downstroke and flex the ankle.

That said, just because someone toes down doesn't mean the saddle is necessarily too high (it's just one variable in the equation).

Lower your saddle (a lot - 2 cm or so) and see what happens. You should lower the cockpit as well to compensate for the lower saddle position if you want to maintain a similar aero profile.

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [iNELLEK] [ In reply to ]
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As for the question of going too hard, if you train with power, Joe Friel (in The Power Meter Handbook) would recommend keeping your IF between .70 and .79. Hope that helps!
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [iNELLEK] [ In reply to ]
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Another thought - have you tried moving your cleats back? I used to ride with my cleats pretty far forward. Then I developed an achilles problem in my left achilles. I started moving my cleats back according to Steve Hogg's recommendations (https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/...edal-cleat-position/) and it definitely helped me work through the achilles pain (along with lots of eccentric heel drops). Now that the achilles is back to normal I've kept my more rearward cleat position and really like it.

I know you mention your issue is calf cramps and not achilles pain, but I mention cleat position because with my cleats further back my calves have never felt better. I used to have to roll out my calves all the time. I never thought they were injured or anything but after moving my cleats I realized they were chronically tight. Now they feel great and I barely have to roll them out at all. Just a thought.
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Where can you get a sweat test?
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [jdais] [ In reply to ]
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He did his at a local university. They measured both volume and the composition. He always knew that hew perspired more than most people, but the eye opener was the discovery that he was losing a much higher percentage of electrolytes than most.
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [iNELLEK] [ In reply to ]
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It could be both. As Trent said, you have what might be a fit issue. That's a variable you can test.
The fitness issue is harder, because we don't have your training history. Can you provide some of that? In my own experience, it's not until I do rides long enough and hard enough that I don't fall apart (cramp, bonk, etc.) during a race, i.e. I'm well trained. Unfortunately, never been dehydration/electrolytes (that would be an easy fix!). And I've stupidly faked it many times, only to be smacked down by reality. -J

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Life is tough. But it's tougher when you're stupid. -John Wayne
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [karlaj] [ In reply to ]
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You use a different bike for short course vs. long course? I think you could very well have bike fit issues.

Odds are good that in a race your riding different, maybe more tense, the swim impacts you more than you think. You might be putting in some hard efforts early on that your paying for later.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [iNELLEK] [ In reply to ]
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My +1. I rode my whole life. Never had cramping on the bike. Ever. Despite a number of times running out of water and coming home dehydrated. But when I first got into tris I had cramping in the legs running off the bike. Cramping stopped since then, since putting a lot of run miles in (started in 2008). So for me it was definitely fitness.

BTW I rode on some pretty crappy bike fits (experimenting) and never made any difference to cramping. Knee pain and comfort, sure.
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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Me or the OP? I know what my sins are.

The OP, however, maybe riding beyond his training and paying for it, or his fit stinks and he's suffering needlessly. That's what we're trying to figure out.

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Life is tough. But it's tougher when you're stupid. -John Wayne
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [iNELLEK] [ In reply to ]
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There is no good scientific literature that defines what causes cramping. The issues of dehydration and electrolytes are always good for conversation. Consider two things, the first being your fitness level and the amount of effort you are outputting in a race versus training and the length of time you are doing it.

From my conjecture standpoint, it is possible your body is simply not accustomed to your stress levels you force in racing. It is possible you create nervous system fatigue where there is a reduction in the presence of acetylcholinesterase- breaks down the neurotransmitter acetylcholine that stimulates muscle firing. The lack of ACh-esterase can create the tetanic state that you are experiencing. My thought is perhaps this is your biology and you may be able to change it over the long term, but just as there are elite athletes and AGers most of us have some biological cap on our performance.
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [trentnix] [ In reply to ]
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I dropped my saddle about 2 cm. Does this look better? My front end is slammed down with a 5 mm topcap and a -25* stem so I can't get any lower...

Updated Fit
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [iNELLEK] [ In reply to ]
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iNELLEK wrote:
I dropped my saddle about 2 cm. Does this look better? My front end is slammed down with a 5 mm topcap and a -25* stem so I can't get any lower...

Updated Fit
Looks better, but still a bit too tall. Drop it another 5mm or so.

Front end looks awesome. If the good Lord above has a tri bike, it's slammed just like that.

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [trentnix] [ In reply to ]
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Hopefully this will be the last of the videos I upload. Since lowering my saddle from my initial position, I felt that my pedaling feels more circular and smoother in addition to my feet being flatter at the start of the downstroke, only being slightly angled down at the 6 o'clock position. I also feel that I have more "ankling action" (as opposed to having my ankle remain locked at the same angle throughout the strokes) as well as less rocking in the hips. However, I feel more of a burn in my quads and inner thighs above the knees. Is this normal? Also wondering if these changes in both position and feeling are aimed for so that I can later apply it to my more aggressive TT bike. Thanks for the input! Hopefully calf cramps issues are resolved with this.

Tri bike fit #3
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [iNELLEK] [ In reply to ]
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Looks much better. Let us know how things go.

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [iNELLEK] [ In reply to ]
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iNELLEK wrote:
Hopefully this will be the last of the videos I upload. Since lowering my saddle from my initial position, I felt that my pedaling feels more circular and smoother in addition to my feet being flatter at the start of the downstroke, only being slightly angled down at the 6 o'clock position. I also feel that I have more "ankling action" (as opposed to having my ankle remain locked at the same angle throughout the strokes) as well as less rocking in the hips. However, I feel more of a burn in my quads and inner thighs above the knees. Is this normal? Also wondering if these changes in both position and feeling are aimed for so that I can later apply it to my more aggressive TT bike. Thanks for the input! Hopefully calf cramps issues are resolved with this.

Tri bike fit #3
Any updates? If we managed to fix the issue, I'll need an address where I can send the invoice. ;)

Seriously though, hope things have improved.

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [trentnix] [ In reply to ]
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Yes! Everything is working well! It took a bit of practice to get used to the lower saddle height, but I managed to take it on multiple 3 hour rides and even a HIM without any calf strain! I've definitely been able to pony up some extra watts too!

Thanks so much for your input, Trent! Definite referral for you!
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Re: Bike fit? Or bike fitness... [iNELLEK] [ In reply to ]
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Outstanding news. Really glad that did the trick.

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)
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