"I never had that problem with my 10 speed stuff."

Then why are you record9ti? Mental issues?

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

"Now back to reality, compact cranks are taking over in Europe on both Shimano and Campy bikes. The sales numbers are truly unbelievable."

Why no compact options on 2004 Cervelo's? I know you are a believer.

"I LOVE the Campy bar ends as there is an adjustment screw right in your fingers that enables you to play with the shifting."

Yes, but Shimano bar end shifters allow you to switch from indexing to friction so you don't HAVE TO play with shifting while you are riding. Friction also allows you to swap wheels during or before your ride with no hassle. I really don't understand why Campy does not offer this option, I don't think Shimano holds a patent on it.

I think many folks who would say that bike lust is a pretty big problem! And I understand what you're saying. I guess it depends on your point of view. I'm a pretty big bike geek, and I like the "exotic" stuff. I'll never have most of it. As close as I'll get is maybe some low end Campy stuff on a low end frame. By that I mean that I'll probably never have the Colnago C-40 with full Record 10. I'd like to have it, but I probably never will. I could be happy with just about anything. My tri bike with 105 is all the bike I need. I wouldn't have anything against riding Sora or Tiagra, either. I've had bikes with those groups, and the groups didn't hold me back a bit. In fact, I usually limit myself to a mid-range group when I buy a new bike. Why? Because the extra cash on Dura Ace or Ultegra, Record or Chorus won't make a difference in my bike splits.

Maybe it's because I don't see it much, but I'm in love with Campagnolo. Have been for a while. I think a bike with Campy is special. To me, it just adds something that a Shimano bike doesn't have. It's all in my mind, and maybe there's something wrong up there, but that's the way I feel.

Campy dresses up a frame, gives it a little pinache it would otherwise not have. Yeah, it gives a bike soul. At least to me it does.

Another bike with soul is any old bike that some guy just hammers on. Doesn't matter what is on it. For example, this weekend, a guy on a 1987 Cannondale frame just like my old purple one took first place in a 10 mile time trial. It was cold (38-40* F) and windy, and this guy came out with this old Cannondale with fat round tubes. It was a road set up all the way, with Profile clip ons. He had upgraded the frame with Shimano 9 speed, either Dura Ace or Ultegra, can't remember which. But he absolutely hammered the field. Beat everybody hands down. That bike had some soul. I can't describe how, but it did.

Maybe we (I) ascribe too much to bikes, but to me, a bike is a work of art. And some bikes are classier than others. Some bikes have an air about them that others do not. Same with cars, I guess. A Ferrari is a different machine than a Corvette. Both are fast and expensive, but a Corvette is ho hum (kind of like a Dura Ace 5500) while a Ferrari is something special (like a Record 10 C-40). I wouldn't turn either down, but if I had my choice I'd take the Ferrari over the 'Vette, and the C-40 over the 5500. I don't know if the analogy makes any sense or not, but that's about the best I can explain it.

RP

All I know is what Bicycle Retailer has been reporting.

As for 10 speed bar-ends, I believe you can put 10s downtube levers on 9 speed bar-end inserts. It won't be cheap (you're basically buying 2 sets of shifters), but it would help you satisfy your most anxious customers.

I'd be shocked if that D-Ace AX brake were more aero than a Record single pivot '04 caliper mounted up front.

Aren't Dia Compe BRS200/500 and Cane Creek/Brew brakes still around?

DiaCompe also made a "Grand Prix" something or other cailper. Very very small, small brake pads, centered housing stop, etc.

Super light at 231 grams for the set, etc...
I'm sure there are some sitting in a shop drawer near you.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

gerard,

i respectfully disagree. i raced professiionally in belgium for a few years on adiivision two team that was later relegated to diiviision three both in kermesse races and on the track. crank/bb stiiffness is bs. the bottom bracket shell of almost any bike is signifigantly flexier than any crank/bb assembly...you ever see any of those shimano sponsered pros racing on their old square taper cranks? you know why? the advantageof usiing an ada or pmp bottom bracket in terms of effiicency drastically exceeds any advantage in "stiffness" the new octalink gives you....look at the big guy sprinters putting out peak wattage of over 3000 watts... they do fine on campy cranks. the fact of the matter is shimano went splined so they could use aluminum spindles and make a lighter assembly. the wattage lost in drivetrain efficiency (albeit slight) is not outweighed by this bullshite "stiffness" all you people harp on about. talk to your trackies..hell, talk to csc. they don't care about crank arm stifness...they care about crazy things few bike builders ever talk about any more like "rake" and "trail" and "front center" and "torsional rigidity". you are a brillant man and you desiign great bikes....but i'm right on this one aren't i?

Why no compact options on 2004 Cervelo's? I know you are a believer.


americans are "Supersize" customers.

50t is good, but 52t is better. 53t even better.

Shimano and Campy literature claim that their front derailleurs won't work with the 34/50t set ups.

Cervelo may drink the Kool-Aid, but they just take small sips. The masses aren't ready for "compact" road cranks as a spec. A good bike shop can swap the Ultegra cranks off your beloved P2K for a set of Octalink Ritchey 50/34t compact cranks for less than $20. The spec is the job of the consumer and shop, not the product manager.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

[reply]Why no compact options on 2004 Cervelo's? I know you are a believer.


americans are "Supersize" customers.

50t is good, but 52t is better. 53t even better.

Shimano and Campy literature claim that their front derailleurs work work with the 34/50t set ups.

Gerard may drink the Kool-Aid, but he just takes small sips. The masses aren't ready for "compact" road cranks as a spec. A good bike shop can swap the Ultegra cranks off your beloved P2K for a set of Octalink Ritchey 50/34t compact cranks for less than $20. The spec is the job of the consumer and shop, not the product manager.[/reply]

I think I can speak for myself much better than you can.

I didn't start using compact cranks until August, and it was simply too late for a spec change at that point. But I am seriously looking at some compact cranks for future assemblies. There are still a few minor issues I have with compact cranks (not with the concept but with the execution) and my preferred crank supplier is working on those and Ithink they will be solved shortly.

And unlike most other bike companies, Cervelo does not wish to nor does it have to wait for the masses to be ready. We don't appeal to the masses, and a lot of our customers are ahead of the curve. We didn't follow slowman when he started putting 55t rings on QRs, sure everybody thought it looked cool and asked for it but simple math told us virtually nobody needed it. And now we won't be part of the status quo if we think compact is better. I've never drunk Koolaid, but I would down the whole glass at once given the chance.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

My apologies Gerard. Of course you can speak for yourself. Your ability to react to market interest is in fact much quicker that most in this industry. My speculation is that the reason compact cranks are embraced in Europe much more so than they ever will be here is the nature of their advantage (less is more) is simply lost on most US consumers. My post was to address why they weren't specced industry-wide, obviously most product designers/managers are not involved in the sport like you are and can't understand what advantages the compact crank brings to the consumer, so I guess your bikes are without a compact crank option for a different reason.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

i'm a little confused by this thread.

first off why would the ultegra 10 spd be news? i mean, cool if somebody has seen it and all but as a scoop is it not entirely predictable? of course ultegra is gonna be 10, with 105 likely to follow. no, it will not be this year's DA, it will incorporate design elements of DA in more cost effective manners, just as shimano always does. no, there is no significant advantage to 10 over 9 - it is refinement and progression and it doesn't matter if it fully is needed or makes sense that is just the way the shit goes. the advantages are not in the extra gear, but in the refinement of the total package - in this case the bullseye style crank/outboard bb and the new ergonomic up at the hoods.

the non-overlap chainring idea makes a lot more sense in europe, where roads are steeper and narrower than here generally speaking. one ring for goin up and one for goin down. to see this very old and by and large discarded idea presented as savvy and new ( even with a catchy marketing term !!) by tri-geeks continues to amuse me. maybe TA can put faux carbon stickers or a "exoskeleton" on the old TA cyclotouriste crank and give it another 50 years lifespan!

veloce damn sure does not have soul, and neither does bling record. c'mon now - how much soul is there in a pimp-a$$ rolex? maybe some well worn nuovo record . . . . . . .

I'm a Shimano guy, but I do have to admit that there's something about a Colnago C-50 with Record carbon stuff. "Soul"... dunno... but cool, yeah.

Here's an analogy:

Colnago C-50 with Carbon Record (I'd love to have) is like a Ferrari... beautiful and fast, but has to be maintained very carefully or it does not run at it's full potential.

Litespeed Vortex with Dura Ace is like a Porsche... beautiful and fast, and pretty much bullet proof.

Thank You! Finally someone other than me who seems to get that this "stiffness" is nothing more than marketing.

As for Porsche being bullet proof...you are right. The total cost of ownership is MUCH lower on a 996 than on an F360-F1. I never ever have to mess with the Record gear all season...unfortunaly I cant say the same about the cars. I will take my 3.6 liters turbo charged! (rather than an NA 3.8 V8)

Tibbs....Record10 was to much a pain in the butt as Record9ti@aol.com has been my email for years as well as my AIM name.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

there are two reasons that centerpull 'delta' brakes are faster than today's offerings:

1. centerpull means no housing leading to the brake, only a cable, this does not apply to Kronos, the smaller diameter cable is more aero

2. there are no brake arms hanging out the side with deltas

[reply]..hell, talk to csc. they don't care about crank arm stifness..[/reply]

The funny thing is, I do on a daily basis and I can tell you you're wrong. I don't really want to say too much about it since it would give away info about what other companies are working on, but crank stiffness was actually one of the hot topics, and the exact reason for my earlier comment

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

[reply]
Thank You! Finally someone other than me who seems to get that this "stiffness" is nothing more than marketing.
[/reply]

I don't think it's just marketing, but I will agree that for a lot of people it won't make a difference. All I did was react to your statement you've never heard people complain about it, I said I have. That's all.

If you say that most people won't notice the crank stiffness difference, I would say for most the choice of Shimano vs. Campy won't make a difference either.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

Granted....and we all know for certain that you are much more intimate with the comments being made by the Pro's are. Gerard...I think I need a P3, just cause it looks neat...any word on ETA for the 2004? (non CSC colors).

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

The only 2004 P3 options are the Team version or the Hottubes custom paint option. Both have been available since August, although the Team version with DuraAce 10-speed is only becoming available this month due to the delay of the bar-ends.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

You forgot the 3rd reason Delta brakes are so fast - their lack of stopping power.

not too bad, besides, I only slow for the turnaround and at the finish



- g

Dont forget about the other nice Delta "feature"...everyone knew you had them...



SQUeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeK

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?