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WTF contractors
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I needed our LR/DR drywalled and some joints from previous work finished up, so a neighbour who's in construction gave me the contact info for a drywall guy he uses. Guy gave us a very reasonable estimate and we signed a contract to get the work done. His drywall hanging crew showed up, were in for 2, 2.5 days and then the taping/mudding "crew" came out - one guy with a pair of stilts. He did good work and worked fast, but after the first couple of not-quite full days said he'd be back early the next day (Saturday). Never showed. It wasn't a big deal anyway because I had a bunch of other work to do around the house, and we had somewhere to be in the afternoon.

Guy didn't show on the following Monday, I shot the owner a text and he said the guy would be back Tuesday. He did come back on Tuesday, worked for a few hours, left. Wednesday, no show as of 11:15am. I texted the head guy, he said the guy will "be there shortly". 2.5 hours later the guy showed up, worked for a couple of hours, and left (after mentioning he couldn't reach one of the wall/ceiling joints he needed to finish because it was 12' high at the apex). Not sure how that was our problem, his boss saw the job before he sent him to do it.

Came back again the next day, worked for a couple of hours again, did do the high seam except the very highest spot, left and told my wife he'd be back the next day to finish up the last of the sanding. I noticed this time he took his mixing drill, stilts etc with him which he hadn't done before. Suspicions confirmed the next day when he didn't show up. This time the head guy doesn't return my text, or answer my call. Not a huge deal yet because it still isn't really impacting our timelines. No show again the next day, texts and calls go unresponded to.

I ended up sanding the remaining seams myself so we could crack on with painting before the floors got installed.

At this point, we haven't paid anything but did get an invoice in the mail. I'm tempted to subtract a (small) % for the sanding work I did myself but feel bad because I got the guy on recommendation from my neighbour. I keep hearing from people in the trades that business is tight, they need all the work they can get, yada yada, but it seems like even the ones we get via word-of-mouth can't keep their shit together long enough to see a job through to the end.

WWLRD?

(And to top it off, the flooring guys showed up today and proceeded to install half the living room room and half the foyer with the boards running the wrong way from what we agreed to with the install manager who came out to measure. Luckily I noticed it while taking a break from working, and after the installer spent 15 minutes trying to explain to me why it wasn't the wrong direction and it had to run that way despite me pointing out the floor joist direction, I called my brother-in-law who sold us the hardwood, who called the install manager, who then called the install crew. They just spent the last two hours tearing out a bunch of Brazilian Teak, which they will be eating).
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Re: WTF contractors [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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That's got to be frustrating. I'm guessing that they had another big job that had to be started by a certain date, so they split time to make both of you "happy".

I had a painter do something similar when I built my house. He was hungry for work and I was doing a lot of the painting myself, so we agreed upon an hourly rate for him to do the stuff that required a better painter. He landed a contract job that paid a lot more than I did, so he left before completing his job. I don't blame him, though it would have been nice to have him finish the job.
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Re: WTF contractors [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
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rick_pcfl wrote:
I'm guessing that they had another big job that had to be started by a certain date, so they split time to make both of you "happy".

Honestly, if it was something like that I wouldn't have minded if the guy had been up front about it and told us his guy was splitting jobs and would be showing up on the afternoon of this day, that day - as long as he showed up when he was supposed to and the work got done.
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Re: WTF contractors [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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Why WTF? That's pretty much how it is.

Wait until you find the hidden damage they've left behind, unrelated but adjacent to the work they've done, and try to get them to pay to have that fixed.
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Re: WTF contractors [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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I've been in construction for a long time. Your drywaller overbooked. In his mind it is better to show up at each job for a couple hours (then he can tell you he showed up) rather than staying until done.

What they don't realize is they are upsetting their customers. They are also losing money because driving, setting up, reloading truck, and driving again is not an efficient way to spend the day.

I recently got into flipping houses and the contractors do not hear me when I tell them my experience. I tried to straighten an electrician out. He heard me and agreed with what I was saying. Didn't chane his habits so I let him go.
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Re: WTF contractors [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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Ah, yes. The old one guy on stilts periodically showing up contractor scam.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: WTF contractors [Bumble Bee] [ In reply to ]
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Bumble Bee wrote:
I've been in construction for a long time. Your drywaller overbooked. In his mind it is better to show up at each job for a couple hours (then he can tell you he showed up) rather than staying until done.

What they don't realize is they are upsetting their customers. They are also losing money because driving, setting up, reloading truck, and driving again is not an efficient way to spend the day.

I recently got into flipping houses and the contractors do not hear me when I tell them my experience. I tried to straighten an electrician out. He heard me and agreed with what I was saying. Didn't chane his habits so I let him go.

Yep. Like I said above, tell me you're splitting time between two jobs, as long as the work can be done by the deadline for the next phase to start, that's fine. Showing up whenever and for however long you feel like is bullshit.
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Re: WTF contractors [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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Is this taking place in Philadelphia?

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: WTF contractors [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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japarker24 wrote:
Is this taking place in Philadelphia?

Good guess!

Are you going to make contracting great again?
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Re: WTF contractors [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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Lets make Philly great again!

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: WTF contractors [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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From my limited experience with contractors, that's about normal. We had a dishwasher leak cause the need for new lower cabinets in the kitchen and new hardwood floor in entire house. We basically had 3 different crews (cabinets/baseboards, floors, countertops), and the cabinet/baseboard crew reinstalled moldy baseboards and cabinet faces vs replacing them and then set the new cabinets in the wrong spot. The new opening for the dishwasher was too wide and the cabinets on either side of the stove came out to different spots. When I pointed it out, they just wanted to rip out the 3 ft of cabinet that did not get replaced to match it up with the 10 ft that they screwed up (and add a trim piece around the dishwasher to cover the gap) instead of just fixing it. The whole time, the guy who was in charge of the cabinets kept blaming everyone else. He even told the counter top guys they were going to have to split the cost of a new piece of granite with him since it had already been cut based of the location of his cabinets.

Edit: They ended up sending an additional bill for about $700 that they said our insurance did not cover. I sent them a reply showing $1500 worth of work that they didn't do. We ended up getting an $800 check back from them.
Last edited by: Harbo99: May 25, 16 11:47
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Re: WTF contractors [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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This all sounds very typical. I would say your texts needed to be a little less polite - not rude, but just less polite - and I would certainly dock something for the sanding work you did. Presumably your time is valuable and you don't want to also be paying for work that wasn't done?
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Re: WTF contractors [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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I would not pay until you are satisfied the job has been completed. I would also provide feedback on Yelp or Angie's List.
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Re: WTF contractors [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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Although contractors doing things like this can be frustrating as hell, here's one of most important questions; what did your contract say with respect to schedule? Does it just identify a final completion date, or does it discuss the actual days, hours, etc. that they'll be on-site, and how they'll coordinate that schedule? If it just says they'll be done by a certain date, and they meet that date, they will have upheld their end of the contract. If you attempt to withhold anything for the work you did yourself, they could argue that they intended to come back and finish that, but you didn't give them the chance. They could even place a lien on your property if you do that, and you don't want that.

I manage contractors all the time for work and if I see this kind of thing happen repeatedly, but only if we don't have a specific schedule identified. If have a specific schedule identified, it's much easier to hold them to it when they know it can impact when and how much they are paid.

I agree that the whole situation can be frustrating as hell, but it demonstrates why everything needs to be clearly spelled out in advance, and also why a lot of contractors don't like written contracts.
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Re: WTF contractors [bm] [ In reply to ]
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bm wrote:
Although contractors doing things like this can be frustrating as hell, here's one of most important questions; what did your contract say with respect to schedule? Does it just identify a final completion date, or does it discuss the actual days, hours, etc. that they'll be on-site, and how they'll coordinate that schedule? If it just says they'll be done by a certain date, and they meet that date, they will have upheld their end of the contract. If you attempt to withhold anything for the work you did yourself, they could argue that they intended to come back and finish that, but you didn't give them the chance. They could even place a lien on your property if you do that, and you don't want that.

I manage contractors all the time for work and if I see this kind of thing happen repeatedly, but only if we don't have a specific schedule identified. If have a specific schedule identified, it's much easier to hold them to it when they know it can impact when and how much they are paid.

I agree that the whole situation can be frustrating as hell, but it demonstrates why everything needs to be clearly spelled out in advance, and also why a lot of contractors don't like written contracts.

Nothing in the contract, mainly because a) when we spoke to the owner in the week before the work started, he gave us a timeline of one week from when they loaded in the boards b) he was a recommendation from a friend/neighbour who's one of the most dependable people I know, and I took the guy at his word on the 1-week timeline he gave us. Also, at that point even if it had taken double the time he specified, it wouldn't have impacted our timelines for the flooring/painting etc.

I know.. lesson learned.

On the bright side from my OP, the flooring guys came back yesterday with extra crew and more than made up for the half day they wasted ripping up the misaligned boards. Floor looks awesome and probably more importantly, the wife loves how it looks. Happy wife happy life :)
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Re: WTF contractors [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a contractor. I feel your pain. Keeping trades on schedule is like herding cats. I'm on the phone constantly asking why people aren't there, or calling the day before scheduled to confirm they still plan on being there.

I had one incident where I couldn't get a stucco contractor to show up for the life of me. I was hounding them relentlessly. I actually showed up to their office, called from outside asking for the guy I was dealing with (I could see his truck in the parking lot), and was told he wasn't in the office. So I walked in, and saw him right there to confront him.

I've had other incidents where someone is obviously screening my calls and not picking up, so I'll borrow a phone from someone next to me and call again from a different number, and boom, he picks up. Sometimes you have to be a dick to get things done in construction.

Eventually, you learn who you can trust, you pay them accordingly and immediately and use them exclusively, but building those relationships takes a long time and is a lot of work to maintain.

As for paying your drywaller, I'd hold out as long as I could, and probably hold back 15% because even though they didn't mess up their timeline, they screwed you, and they know it. Don't feel bad, and hold back slightly more then you think is fair. They could have earned the full 100% simply by showing up on time, or at even just keeping you in the loop by a simple text message informing you of their schedule. It's an unfortunate part of 'the game'.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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