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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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What I think you said is I I didn't do an apple to apple comparison more like fruit to a chainsaw and the chainsaw won type of comparison.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Last edited by: desert dude: May 5, 16 17:27
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:

I've tried entire blocks of HIM run training on tired legs (and sometimes REALLY tired legs from big bike Sat, then 2-2.5hr hill run on Sun AM) as well as HIM run training on pretty nontired legs with 50% the run volume but increased run intensity............

Training on dead legs is pretty good stuff, unfortunately.

I think if any conclusion could be drawn from that apples to chainsaw investigation the conclusion I'd go for is that "Running more, twice as much in fact, is pretty good stuff, un/fortunately".
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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15 11-minute miles every Sunday because that's all I can muster when I can run a sub-1:25 13.1 would make me want to quit running.

Long runs on tires legs are no fun. And if I don't enjoy the process I'm missing the point.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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If you run 6 times a week you are going be running on tired legs unless you don't cycle or if you do you just spin for an hour
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [TriFloyd] [ In reply to ]
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I tried running 6x per week last year, that was as follows:
3x - easy 30mins before each swim session
1x - easy 60-75min
1x - hard track workout ~60min
1x - long run (usually easy, sometimes tempo) 90m-120m

This year: exactly the same except I've cut out the 3 easy 30min runs. Feeling as fast if not faster than last year, pretty sure my HIM time will be around the same as last year if not better but race is only in June so I'll let you know. (Track workouts suggest I'm quicker)

*I only do HIM distance events, nothing longer for tri
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
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My thinking is that I want to do that run on tired legs


When I write schedules I think just the opposite of that. I'd pose this question to you. Why do you think you want to do them on tired legs?

If I was consulting with people about my schedule who thought running 3d wk made sense I'd find other consultants as well.

My apologies for confusion. Some context would be good, because I only have time to do the long ride and long run on the weekend, it's a matter of doing the ride or the run on tired legs (i.e., I'm going to do one on Saturday and one on Sunday, and the Sunday workout is on tired legs). I strongly prefer to do the run on tired legs (i.e., on Sunday) versus doing the ride on tired legs because: 1) that's how the order in a triathlon works out; and 2) I've tried reversing it and found that: a) my ride is a real struggle and b) the run is too easy insofar as I want to run faster but I deliberately hold back while the next on the bike I want to ride faster but can't. This way (i.e., Saturday long ride and Sunday long run), I can go harder on the bike and feel "appropriately" tired (i.e., I'm running at about the pace that I'm able to run) for the long run. I hope that makes sense.
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [TriFloyd] [ In reply to ]
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Just a couple FWIW points. I basically only ran/biked for a few years, focusing on some long course duathlons. I was running 6-7X per week, and my running was never better than at the end of last year. This year, I've focused on swimming 5 days a week, but can only run 3-4X. . . . . it blows. . . . . for me. My spring running races have been slow(er), and I'm curious if the change in schedule will be about equal in my OLY and HIM overall times. I'm thinking YES- little faster swim, little slower run. I say if you can run more, run more. Any way you could put that long run sometime in the middle of the week? That might promote quality for the long run and long bike.
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [ned_braden] [ In reply to ]
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Happy to be helping you along the way. :-)


Thanks for choosing TrainerRoad as your cycling tool!

Good luck in your event this month!

Cheers,

Get Faster with TrainerRoad
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [TriFloyd] [ In reply to ]
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I try to run 5x a week during the IM build, or maintain 40 mpw. Almost all of it is LSD, but I will occasionally throw in a fast 6 miler.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [TriFloyd] [ In reply to ]
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TriFloyd wrote:
Who runs 6x/week?

I am having a debate with other triathletes about training too often. I run 6x/week. They think that's too often, and that the subsequent 3-a-days are too much. I'm trying to follow my version of the so-called BarryP plan. For weekdays, I can only swim in the AM and only bike in the evening and on Weds and Thurs.

I'm about a 4:45-ish 1/2IM. I've only done one full IM @ 10:47), and I have one later this season.

Mon - rest
Tues - swim, run, 5 miles fartleks (hard)
Weds - swim, run 5 miles (easy), ride 1 hr (hard)
Thurs - swim, run 5 miles (easy), ride 1 hr (easy)
Fri - swim, run 5 miles tempo (moderate)
Sat - long ride (60 - 100), brick run 4 miles (easy)
Sun - long run (morning) (12 - 20*), ride (very easy) (evening)

*This is very dependent on where I am in the season. Currently I'm between 12 - 15 miles, although that will ramp up to 15 - 20 miles later in the season

I'm considering moving my Weds swim to Monday morning (now Mondays will not be a complete rest day), and running on the Weds morning at the track for about 8 miles; thus, I will not be doing 3 workouts on Weds.

I can run only a max of 5 miles at lunchtime, which is why I do so many 5 mile runs.

I appreciate your feedback.


you list total times in a tri but not run times. you could be a fast swimmer and biker but have shuffle jog run splits and get those times. irritates me as I have seen a german slob to break 10 hours with a 4 hour run split

most pros hit 100km (62 miles) running a week. there is a nice 4 part video series how the raelart brothers train.. 20km a day hill repeats, 120k bike, 6k swim
Last edited by: synthetic: May 6, 16 19:38
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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Do people who are much slower than pros track mileage? Much better to track time imo.

A 100km run week for a pro doing 1.15 in a half Ironman will take much less time than someone with a 1.30 half run split. Some guys who run sub 13 for 5 kms only run 100kms per week
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [TriFloyd] [ In reply to ]
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I only have time to do the long ride and long run on the weekend, it's a matter of doing the ride or the run on tired legs

How much time do you have to work out each day during the week?
What is the duration and miles of your long run?

There is often more than 1 way to solve a problem

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
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I only have time to do the long ride and long run on the weekend, it's a matter of doing the ride or the run on tired legs


How much time do you have to work out each day during the week?
What is the duration and miles of your long run?

There is often more than 1 way to solve a problem


whatever you do in tri... make sure your bike split and run split are not the same!
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [bltri] [ In reply to ]
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"Just a couple FWIW points. I basically only ran/biked for a few years, focusing on some long course duathlons. I was running 6-7X per week, and my running was never better than at the end of last year. This year, I've focused on swimming 5 days a week, but can only run 3-4X. . . . . it blows. . . . . for me. My spring running races have been slow(er), and I'm curious if the change in schedule will be about equal in my OLY and HIM overall times. I'm thinking YES- little faster swim, little slower run. I say if you can run more, run more. Any way you could put that long run sometime in the middle of the week? That might promote quality for the long run and long bike. "

FWIW, Your run may be slightly slower from running but it may also be slower from the increased swimming. Swimming will wear/tire you out and possibly you added some muscle too.
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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fulla wrote:
Do people who are much slower than pros track mileage? Much better to track time imo.

A 100km run week for a pro doing 1.15 in a half Ironman will take much less time than someone with a 1.30 half run split. Some guys who run sub 13 for 5 kms only run 100kms per week

I love how 130 is your 'slow' example. And c'mon, how many sub 13 people are there in the world?
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [TriFloyd] [ In reply to ]
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Take it for what its worth....
M-Swim am Run PM
T- Long Run PM
W-Swim am Brick pm
Th-Easy Run pm or off
Fri- Swim am Run pm
Sat-Brick (Long 4-6hr ride short 20-30 min run)
Sun-Brick (Short 2hr ride to Long max 2hr run)


Yes 7 days a week running!!!!



"Your limits are self imposed"
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [TriFloyd] [ In reply to ]
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Two realities of training for many age groupers are fit in what you can, when you can, and the more training you do, the faster you will race.

If you dropped one of your 5 mile lunch time runs, what would you being doing with that time otherwise? I am guessing neither cycling or swimming.

Easy to see why your bricked long ride and long run are on the weekend and they're obviously the cornerstones on which your training is based.

45 miles a week isn't extraordinarily high running mileage, so if your absorbing it well and enjoy your training regime, I reckon keep it up.
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Re: Triathlete training plans - running 6x/week - Too much? [JSully] [ In reply to ]
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JSully wrote:
fulla wrote:
Do people who are much slower than pros track mileage? Much better to track time imo.

A 100km run week for a pro doing 1.15 in a half Ironman will take much less time than someone with a 1.30 half run split. Some guys who run sub 13 for 5 kms only run 100kms per week


I love how 130 is your 'slow' example. And c'mon, how many sub 13 people are there in the world?

I guess I am just trying to show that for someone who is as "slow" as 1.30 (which I don't consider slow anyway), it is going to take an awful lot of time to run 100kms, whereas for someone going sub 13 (Hicham El Guerojj and Bernard Lagat rarely ran over 100kms in training from what I understand - 2 of the greatest middle distance runners around), 100kms is not going to take anywhere near as much time.

Although those elite runners doing that type of training will be doing significant amounts of intensity, triathletes will be doing significant amounts of intensity also with cycling and swimming added on top and those swim and bike sessions do take a toll on your ability to do a high quality run session. So, I think it is short sighted for age group triathletes to think about run training in terms of distance per week.

Running the same distance as an elite is going to take much more out of an age grouper, all other things being equal.
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