I know a coach, who I personally, would never have coach me even for free. She clearly over trains and her body is just beaten down. Every stride she looks to be in pain. I witnessed her faint on a run and refuse offers from others to go back and get a car to pick her up. She just decided to run it off. We had 10 miles left in the run. Hopefully, she does push her athletes like that

my half marathon PR was 1:36

my half ironman run was 1:33 after a swim and bike PR and 90% of it was on gravel roads (and i wasn't pushing d/t it being 3 weeks out from an ironman). had it been pavement, i bet i could have run a 1:29, had there not been an ironman 3 weeks later, i may have pushed to 1:27 range.

so no, not any athlete would know that. luckily i have lots of strava data to back up my improved fitness ;-)

So while I think your point of leaving it to the correct authorities is valid. I think it's simply unrealistic and this post pretty much validates that. The cats out of the bag now. That isn't to say it should be that way, but I take the approach that with enough reasonable data presented, I can likely determine if a person cheated or not. Does that mean an innocent person won't get slammed? Nope, and does that mean we probaly will stop this process? Doubt it.

So what are we to do?

ETA: I'm a coach. My athlete who just ran Boston got hurt in Jan and we did very limited running. Athlete ran a very slow Boston and would show up on the "radar" of his investigation. You know what I would have done if he made a blog and said he cheated? I'd have raised hell and sent every file and result I have from him to prove his innocence. So like I said, I think with someone investigates with integrity and a process, then it's fine. You are all worried about the whackos who would have screamed bloody murder about my athlete because he ran slow in Boston. My retort would A to show him the facts, and then if he wants to continue, what am I going to do? If someone wants to bad mouth you, they are going to bad mouth you. At some point you just say accept that in today's social media world everyone has a "voice", whether valid or not. But if the evidence suggest you didnt cheat, I think most reasonable people will accept it and say that's just a guy with a revenge attitude.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

that's great, and you prove my point: you were fully aware of your potential (although there is always a strong risk of believing "oh I could have pushed 2 mins faster if I wanted to" when actually no, you probably might have blown up). I'm guessing training for an IM put you in the kind of shape to set a new 13.1 PR at the end of a 70.3.

But I also have a 13.1 PR of 1:29 (stand alone), so I know first hand that to post a 1:21 half marathon at the end of a 70.3 would take a HUGE change. Indeed, my best half marathon in a 70.3 is 1:36 so anything sub-1:30 would make me scratch my head and think something was wrong.

And that was the point I made in that thread. The accused cheater came out firing: "no way I cheated!!" etc. and yet all along, from the moment he crossed the line and saw his splits, he would have known something was suspect. I understand why he did it, and at least he accepted the truth when irrefutable evidence was presented, but he should have spoken up sooner, and certainly not screaming blue murder with his first post on S/t.

kay,

i'm not defending the guy in any way. it was cheating. but to say anyone who ran a PR in a half is "obviously/clearly/etc cheating" is just not accurate.

i know what i could have run. i started the first 5 miles relatively slow. it wasn't until mile 6 that i pushed the pace harder. not to mention, i felt great and had no soreness post race.

some people just don't take road racing as serious. it's possible that i'll PR my marathon time at ironmanChoo this sept. who knows. i recall most people saying it would be impossible for me to PR my half when my open half was 1:36 and my previous best half run was 1:42. i ran a 1:32 (re-checked it a few mins ago). training, it goes a long way. ha ha.

it's important to give due diligence and check up on previous times, look at progression etc, before folks (not you specifically) jump out and call folks cheaters because of time improvements, that is all.

But Brooks, what I am saying (and this is probably gonna be my last post on the issue for now) is that it isn't necessarily a "whacko" or guy with a "revenge attitude". You can see the mentality of what I am talking about right here in this thread "Fook YEAH...screw cheaters and who cares if someone else gets caught in the crosshairs."

The reality is that employers (both current and actual) and other parties search the web for information on people. So some guy who has declared himself a cheating investigator throws out a blog post with a bunch of people's names on it and that is a hit for the employers search....BAM. Guy is now associated with cheating when he may well have done nothing wrong.

Again, I am not saying don't do the research....I am saying let the race organizers / officials handle it and make any public announcements. I can't understand why that idea generates such opposition.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I'm not opposed to what your saying.

I'm saying your living unrealistic, if you think people aren't going to do this, in today's social media driven world.

Which I think was a guys earlier point about you living in "1986". Today's social media craze, this is just a by product now. Not saying it's right, just that it's part of life. And so my counter is that more times than not, if you can verify your result there won't be an issue.

So yes I completely get your viewpoint. But that's no going to happen anymore, whether right or wrong.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Yeah, unfortunately, you are probably right....but I will always raise my voice in opposition to that which I believe to be wrong.

Not my first windmill.....

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

it seems exceptionally unlikely, once all the data uncovered, that a truly innocent person would have missing splits from a chip, not be wearing a Garmin, not appear in relevant race photos, and not have other times that support their ability to be able to get the result in question.


reread the above from my post. What I said was exceptionally unlikely was a person who met all four of those conditions was innocent.


The stuff you're referring to is false accusations based on flimsy evidence, and I do have a problem with that.
I share the concern. I'd hate to have my chip give out, miss some splits, and having someone put my name out there as a cheat. But pointing out that someone's time seems super fishy if there's overwhelming evidence doesn't give me any heartburn.


As for who does the investigating and outing, I'm not really sure what I think. Ideally would be as you say, and have the governing bodies do it. But this sort of thing isn't without precedent. People get outed all the time on the internet for being a jerk.