unless baked, donuts are fried, where the oil changes to synthetic type fats that the body cant recognized to break down. So these fats just collect in your body.... and you dont need to look obese to have clogged arteries. you may be fast and thin person now... but what happens in 5,10 years? My father was thin and had 3 heart attacks...

Lol what the fuck have you been smoking? Care to sight a peer reviewed source for any of this?

This notion that individual foods can be identified as inherently healthy and unhealthy is a bit silly. You could eat yourself to gross obesity via just fruit (which is mostly sugar, plus water, some quantity of fiber depending on the specific fruit, and a little micronutrients). There are definitely healthy and unhealthy overall diets, though, hinging on macronutrient ratios, micronutrient profiles, and calories. Fruit--but also muffins or donuts--can certainly have a place in a healthy diet.

As for the artificial/natural or processed/unprocessed heuristics, those don't get you much leverage either. That home baked, "organic" (whatever that means) brownie isn't necessarily any better than that commercially produced donut.

The language we use to talk about nutrition seems really broken to me.

see liver and monkey study source.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/...he-chemistry-of-evil

but i see you want to convince yourself as long as you work off the "calories" you think you are fine.

Yeah, its all based on "language". Always base what you put in your body on language. According to you, its incorrect to say a certain fruit or vegetable is healthy, and apparently there are all of these people getting fat from eating too many fruits and vegetables. So actually, if you eat less fruit and veg and add donuts, you are better off. Basically, you read some nutrition article you dont understand and now think a banana is the same thing as a donut because people describe bananas wrong.

Ha, well short of interpretive dance, is *is* all language. Heck, even if we could discourse via mindreading, it would still be language, and on this forum, it most certainly is.

I think many people's desire to label thing with the binary healthy/unhealthy label is more misleading than helpful. For example, people will sometimes ask, is fresh-squeezed orange juice healthy? And the answer is, in moderation it can certainly be part of an extremely healthy diet, but in excess you could drink yourself to gross obesity and other severe health consequences. So the question isn't really coherent. And orange juice--water, a bunch of sugar, a little fiber, a little of a few micronutrients--really doesn't look that different from Coke nutritionally, though most people can't get their heads around that.

Lumping fruits and vegetables is another category mistake (but then so is lumping vegetables into a single category). Grapes are basically sugar water, i.e. Coke. Spinach is basically fiber, with some digestible carb and protein thrown in. Those two foods are far more dissimilar than similar. You're never going to eat your way to obesity via spinach, so that one really is mostly a freebie. Grapes, on the other hand, laze around having lovely maidens feed you grapes, and you will get very fat (and suffer a range of other consequences enroute, too).

I have thought deeply about these issues because of a health condition that made them matter a lot more for me than they do for many others. And I find it interesting to discourse about them with others, as we are here. I like feisty discussions, but it sounds like you're actually emotionally frustrated by what I wrote. I'm sorry to hear that, maybe the better solution is for you to just tune me out?

I am glad someone is not bowing down to the all fruits are awesome dogma thrown in our faces by the fruit growers cartel. But seriously, fruit is deliciouser than vegetables because of all that wonderful sugar. Your claim that coke and grapes are similar was intriguing, and after looking up their caloric content, a kg of grapes equals a L of coke. A coke drinker does miss out on 6 grams of fiber and a few vitamins.

Personally, I would pick the muffin over Krispy Kreme, but if it were an apple fritter or a Bismarck, the muffin would be long forgotten.