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Re: Adoption? [Harbinger] [ In reply to ]
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Ah, Duffy. I have no issue with his sense of humor. I take it as a defense mechanism. I think much of his razzing, sarcasm, humor are likely his technique for coping.
It's me coping with a mind full of funny shit.

The family I grew up in aways laughed and had fun. My grandfather was an undertaker with a wicked sense of humor and little sense of anything else. My father carried that on and was a practical joker (both the victim and the perpetrator) to the very end. When things got tough the jokes kept coming. It's not really a coping mechanism, per se. It's just how our family rolls through life. It just so happens we've had to put up with a lot of loss and insanity.

I'm lucky to have a sense of humor.

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I respect greatly that as an adoptee he is also an adoptor.

Thanks.

We tried to have kids the regular way and it didn't work (no matter how much sperm Mrs. Duffy swallowed she just wouldn't get pregnant). The decision to adopt was a no brainer. For me, adoption is the normal way. I was a little surprised that Mrs. Duffy jumped on the bandwagon so quickly.
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That is not normal.

It is for us.

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I couldn't. The pain would be overwhelming.

Obviously our situations are different. And, again, PM me if you want to talk (I mean it).

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So while he will say he doesn't need big props for being and adoptor, yeah, as an adoptee he needs all he can get. Big, big props to you Duffy. Thank you.

I appreciate the sentiment, I really do, but in all candor we just wanted to have and raise a child. Our reasons for adopting were purely selfish. The outcome is that a boy doesn't grow up in a Russian orphanage but our intent was never to save children from Russian orphanages.
Again, though, I appreciate your kind word.

I have a friend who is having trouble making babies the old fashion way and have been going through much the same shit we did (I actually have a lot of friends who have gone through fertility problems (something in the food?)) and I've brought up adoption with them but, like many, they're 'uncomfortable' with idea. Same shit, 'passing down genes' and all that.

Passing genes was never important to me because my father's genetics hit a dead end, and so did my own (must be genetic…). Plus, honestly, Mrs. Duffy has some seriously fucked up genes in her lineage.

But to many 'blood' is important.

As a side note when I see families together and they all look very much alike it's kind of creepy.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Adoption? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
Professional help is on our list.

Thank you. Your child that you love will thank you.
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Re: Adoption? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Heck, I'm impressed that even Duffy can talk about serious stuff for a few lines ;-)

You'd be surprised.

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I lost my dad unexpectedly less than 2 years ago. He was healthy but 84. Just didn't wake up. Every so often I'll watch something that will make me think of him, or hear something or whatever and I'll tear up. Really fast.
But this is something that we all anticipate at some stage. The feelings you get are much deeper so I'm sure no matter how I try I can't come close to how you felt. But duly noted nonetheless. Professional help is on our list. Once again, thank you and everyone else.
I lost my dad 26 years ago and it still happens to me.

A couple of years ago I found a mini tape recorder while helping my sister clean our her garage.

I took it home and saw that it had a tape in it and I pressed play. My dad made a recording just days before he died (long battle with brain cancer). He knew he was on his way out and want to record some things…for us.

I pressed play, listened, and cried like a baby for an hour. I'm crying as I type this, actually.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Adoption? [Harbinger] [ In reply to ]
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Harbinger wrote:
MJuric wrote:

We went about attempting to raise her as if she was our child, without the knowledge you give above. From our perspective, we were the parents, from hers we were as well, but nothing we could do would ever fill that hole and we had very little idea that hole even existed.



Of course you didn't. You loved, nurtured and cared for her. You thought that was enough. Except you didn't know what you didn't know. You didn't know how big of a hole abandonment creates. What you needed was professional assistance but you didn't know that then.

Consider that moment from the Steve Jobs movie. He fortunately, was adopted by parents who loved and nurtured him. He loved them. Yet throughout his entire life he had a question that haunted him. "What could a one month old baby do that was so terrible that they returned him?". That was somewhat of a façade because he also had to deal with being put up for adoption twice in the first month of his life. There is no magic answer anyone could have given him that would have made that OK. More importantly, simply made it go away. You just can't.

What he needed, what I needed, what your daughter needed, was a way to cope with it all. Abandonment is a difficult emotion to wrestle with. I can't resolve it. I had to learn to 'wall it off'. To say to myself, 'I was not responsible for those events, I was a small child'. So I separate that. I am responsible for my adult decisions. I am responsible for my family (descendants). I will not repeat that pattern of behavior. I will have the relationship with my children that I wanted/needed when I was a child. That is how I cope. But I do know of many that never found a productive way of coping.

All of the above trouble me when it comes to telling our boy about his origins. He was young enough that he doesn't have any memories other than us and our family. But, someday we have to tell him and it kills me to open up wounds that don't currently exist.
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Re: Adoption? [chriskal] [ In reply to ]
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I think that there is a better understanding of child development now than when I was raised. (i.e. attachment theory, bonding, etc.) Personally, I see that making a big difference in terms of the size and impact of the "hole" another poster referred to. Even though neither has a memory, I would also suggest that there is a difference between a child adopted at one week versus one adopted at six months.
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Re: Adoption? [MJuric] [ In reply to ]
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MJuric wrote:
I was adopted as a baby (1 week) and have never felt a "hole" or felt like I was abandoned.

I think timing of adoption makes a HUGE difference. My understanding and walk away from counseling and therapy is that there is a whole lot of "Hard wiring" that takes place in the early years. If that does not take place, something that can happen even when you're with the birth parents under certain conditions, there are very long term effects of that that are often negative.

~Matt
As a clinical psychologist and adoptive parent, I can confirm that timing is a critical factor, although there are many adoptees adopted into wonderful homes at birth who still suffer from abandonment issues as adults. But, under those ideal circumstances, many do not. My impression is that the kids we are talking about here are generally not those given up for adoption at birth, but are infants, children, and adolescents who have experienced some significant trauma prior to landing in a potential adoptive home, whether that trauma be emotional or physical. My son, for instance, who spent most of 12 years in the foster care system (5 years with us), had been in a minimum of 8 different foster homes by the age of 7. And, really, you can't imagine the circumstances under which foster children are moved out of foster homes. It's often, "you're leaving right now; grab your things and throw them in this trash bag," and then they are dropped into a new home, with people they've never met, other kids they don't know, a neighborhood and school they've never seen -- and this happens to infant, toddlers, children, and especially adolescents over and over. This is all on top of whatever horrible things may have happened in their biological home before they were removed. Seriously, it's a miracle, and a testament to human resilience, that any of them survive -- and you can imagine the dedication it takes from foster/adoptive parents, professionals, teachers, etc. to get them to that point of survival.
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Re: Adoption? [HeidiC] [ In reply to ]
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Day 2 of training was yesterday. The attendance was a LOT less than it was in week 1. To a large extent, I have the feeling that
1. all the training could easily be done reading the material
2. they do this over 9 weeks (3h each) only to get to know people, and weed out folks.
I can't say I have learned a lot thus far. Hopefully this will change.
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Re: Adoption? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
Day 2 of training was yesterday. The attendance was a LOT less than it was in week 1. To a large extent, I have the feeling that
1. all the training could easily be done reading the material
2. they do this over 9 weeks (3h each) only to get to know people, and weed out folks.
I can't say I have learned a lot thus far. Hopefully this will change.

I don't recall learning much from any of the classes I took (but, from what I've been told numerous times here, I'm an idiot so your results may be better).

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Adoption? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
1. all the training could easily be done reading the material.

Welcome to your students' world ;)

===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)
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Re: Adoption? [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
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I just do research and have PhD students ;)
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Re: Adoption? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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So after the first couple of classes, we did learn a bit actually, even if only procedural stuff. But it was enlightening. We have just finished the course, and have 'graduation' this evening.
We will be contacted this week for the beginning of the home study (the stuff we had to fill was longer than a mortgage application) and after the home study is completed (a couple of months) we will be ready for the adoption process per se.
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Re: Adoption? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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after the home study is completed (a couple of months) we will be ready for the adoption process per se.

Best of luck to you.

~Matt

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Re: Adoption? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
So after the first couple of classes, we did learn a bit actually, even if only procedural stuff. But it was enlightening. We have just finished the course, and have 'graduation' this evening.
We will be contacted this week for the beginning of the home study (the stuff we had to fill was longer than a mortgage application) and after the home study is completed (a couple of months) we will be ready for the adoption process per se.

It's awesome that you're making progress. Just keep grinding away and be supportive of your wife.

Congratulations on this step of the process.

Keep us updated!

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Adoption? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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As some of you suggested, it is a fair amount of grinding away. Our home study was finally approved. Definitely not the 2 months after completion of the the course that we had planned, but we are legally approved to adopt a child.
Congrats to the agency, they go faster than USCIS to approve US citizenship (one year and counting since I applied and got fingerprinted and approved).
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Re: Adoption? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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This thread has been a really emotional read. I have no experience with adoption, but I get really upset when I think about children suffering through no fault of their own. Beautiful, innocent lives do not deserve to suffer.

So to read about everyone here, your stories, your pain or your efforts to try and right the wrongs, to offer love and stability to those fragile and damaged little minds, is truly inspirational. Each and every one of you gives me hope for the future. In an era where logging on often just inundates my thoughts with images of selfishness, greed, narcissism, pain, suffering or evil, I enter this thread and I find good.

I wish you all sincere best wishes on the journey you are starting out on or the journey you have commenced. Congratulations to those who have completed theirs and made a real difference. For those who are still hurting I hope you find the means to reconcile the pain.
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Re: Adoption? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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