"It was recently suggested that the violence in Iraq has a much greater effect on the perception of the American people than it does within Iraq."

Who suggested that?

This article reminds me of the brain drain from places like South Africa and Zimbabwe, but of course Iraq is in even worse shape in many ways than those two places .... From most of what I have read and heard, the violence in Iraq (and not just the "insurgency" and bombings, its also the lawlessness and crime that we hardly hear about) has driven out many of the best and brightest. I read a lot about how tons of better-eduacted Iraqis are now in Jordan and Syria, since they can't do business or practice their trade in their own country.

BTW: I finally did that drivers license search: stooopid ;-)

I doubt that the insurgency has much affect on the day to day life of 99% of Iraqis. Being a victim of terrorism probably falls into the getting hit by lightning category unless you are a particular target like a high government official.

Of course, like you, I don't really know since I am not there and the reporting is so awful.

Who suggested that?

cdw, who I was admittedly too rough on, and is in better position than I am to judge how representative this report is of the real situation in Iraq.

What say you, cdw?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

We've spent hundreds of billions of dollars and have gone to war to fight terrorism. The risk is small, but our country has taken the most serious action since Viet Nam in order to fight terrorism.

I don't know why the Iraqis wouldn't be just as preoccupied with terrorism as we are. It probably has a huge impact on their lives as 911 does to us.

I doubt that the insurgency has much affect on the day to day life of 99% of Iraqis.

Then the question remains- why do we need 135,000 American troops over there to deal with it?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

In order to keep it that way.

"It probably has a huge impact on their lives as 911 does to us. "

I doubt that. 9/11 had such a large immediate impact here because it was unprecedented. These acts probably impact the average Iraqi less on a daily basis because they are so much more commonplace.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

"Being a victim of terrorism probably falls into the getting hit by lightning category unless you are a particular target like a high government official."


Tell that to people living in the hot spots. The body count for Iraqis is now well into the tens of thousands from thousands of incidents over 2.5 years: Most are civilians, just regular people. That's a bit more than getting struck by lightning.

Then there is the lawlessness and crime too (mentioned in Vitus' article, for example), which is bad in some areas.

Only about 100 people in the US die from lightning each year. Considerably more Iraqis and US personell have died than that in the last year in Iraq.

OK, maybe more like a car accident than being hit by lightening.

One in a thousand Iraqi civilians have died since the war began. It's likely that half the people in Iraq know or are related to someone killed. Yeah, no impact.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

"I wonder if those who say there is really no impact would react the same if 280,000 people died in the U.S?"

You can't compare how something would affect Americans living in freedom and relative safety to how something affects society in a country used to wars and bombings.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Is that "defute" or refute?

I believe the lives of the Iraqi's have changed in terms of violent threats on their well being.

But wasn't there something about how Mussolini made the trains run on time? A safe existence in the short term for the average Iraqi may not be in the long term best interest of the country.

Urban Legend: http://www.snopes.com/...ry/govern/trains.htm

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"Go yell at an M&M"

"I doubt that. 9/11 had such a large immediate impact here because it was unprecedented. These acts probably impact the average Iraqi less on a daily basis because they are so much more commonplace."

Yes, because they are foreigners they don't mind as much when their children get killed.

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Those who know do not speak, those who speak, do not know.

"Yes, because they are foreigners they don't mind as much when their children get killed."

Huh? That had nothing to do with anything I said.

My point, pretty obviously, was that impact means change from the norm. If the norm is bombings and killing, then more bombings and killing doesn't make much of an impact. If the norm is apple pie and ice cream, then bombings and killing make a big impact.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Bombing wasn't the norm before we invaded.

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_______________________________________________

"Bombing wasn't the norm before we invaded"

Death and fear was the norm.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Anybody do a poll asking Iraqis from all over if they are better off in 2005 or 1995? We might not like the answer.

"Anybody do a poll asking Iraqis from all over if they are better off in 2005 or 1995? We might not like the answer. "

You could ask the same question of Americans and you might not like that answer either.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

You're doing a heckuva job, Bushie!