Those who pay no attention to the no carry signs weigh the consequences absolutely. I guarantee you all those who would carry into a movie theater with such a sign would not into a gov't building or school. Most would not into a restricted place like a bar or strip club. Why? Most states, like Arizona and Florida state that a property owner is legally allowed to post the sign, if they become aware you are armed, they can ask you to leave. If you refuse, you can be charged with criminal trespass, a misdemeanor offense.

To many, this is easy to reconcile against not being able to protect themselves. While most would be better off going to businesses that don't have such signs, corporations tend to be influenced by short term idiocy. Like I said last week, when I first moved to AZ, no guns signs were everywhere I went. It would be next to impossible to legally carry here. As it turns out, many of these signs were new given the heat them came with twiddle dee and twiddle dumb posed with guns at chipotle. There was a short term wave of protest by anti-gun efforts that were successful. Well as that heat died down, many of these companies removed such signs. Even chipotle, which had the highest profile. I suspect chipotle needs to do whatever it can to regain lost revenues. While I don't carry into such places, I don't have a problem with people who do. I view it more as risk mitigation on the companies part.

When I attended a couple active shooter compliance courses at two different companies with two different instructors, the same thing came up. Right now, you have employees who are carrying guns for various reasons. Most for legitimate reason of personal protection against an active shooter. This is obviously not in line with policy, but the company has to be prepared if a good employee uses a gun in legitimate self defense at work. One referred to the backlash a pizza company suffered after a pizza man was robbed and defended himself, only to be fired. That company may have had a policy, fired the man, but hired him back later and downplayed the anti-gun policy.

You see, business generally don't care. They don't want to encourage people to carry within their store, but they seldom ask people who prove to be armed to leave unless another customer complains. If you are responsible and carry concealed, there isn't a problem. Then if a customer shoots a robber, they get the best of both world. They can say they don't allow weapons, but this person was there to save the day. If a crime happens, they can say, look we have the signs, but unless we check every visitor we can't stop them.

At least that is how I view it. So let me summarize. Yes, property owners have the right to ask you to leave. The consequences are minimal so many view it as worth the risk. But most companies don't care, it is really just to satisfy the losers who irrationally fear guns being in the hand of lawful citizens. I respect a company wishes and not carry, but if they aren't necessary for my needs, I don't visit. But I don't particularly care if other people violate their policy, and I don't think they do either.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

I guarantee you all those who would carry into a movie theater with such a sign would not into a gov't building or school.

Because there are metal detectors that stop them at the door :-) If they thought they could get away with it they most certainly would.

Most would not into a restricted place like a bar or strip club. Why? Most states, like Arizona and Florida state that a property owner is legally allowed to post the sign, if they become aware you are armed, they can ask you to leave. If you refuse, you can be charged with criminal trespass, a misdemeanor offense.

But as you state later "Many would". This is the point you're completely missing in that all people are not the same. We can argue whether most or not most would do "X" or "Y" but the fact remains that some portion are going to do both.

That is my point. While YOU may be "More cautious" "Some" will be on a power trip and pull their weapons or become involved in situations they should not and would not sans weapon.

We can argue all day about what percentage, that is not my point, my point is that this is clearly a negative to CCW. It may be a negative worth the cost, it may not, but it does not change the fact that this is a negative and one that pro CCW would be benefited in realistically accepting as reality.

~Matt

Exactly. Metal detectors would perhaps have a nut more negative impact on business than allowing guns to bein with.

Yes we could debate. But we know from CDC reports commissioned by our anti-gun president that defensive gun uses far outweigh murders. So it would be fair to say if somebody legally carrying every day in every city used a gun to act out on poor impulses, the benefits would still outweigh the negatives.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

I have no military background.

I carry a gun probably 80% of the time I am able.

I have never felt the urge to shoot anyone.

Since getting my CCW, I am probably more aware of my surroundings whether I am carrying or not.

I have never felt the urge to shoot anyone.

Now I know you're lying. I don't even have a gun and I run into at least a couple people a day I have an urge to shoot :-)

~Matt

lol

I imagine depraved and violent ends to a lot of people I encounter daily. But there is a difference between fantasy and reality. ;)

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

I applaud the cop in that situation for having professional restraint. Better for him and everyone else, not a perp, to go home to their families. I hope I am never faced with a similar situation.

What state?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

But we know from CDC reports commissioned by our anti-gun president that defensive gun uses far outweigh murders. So it would be fair to say if somebody legally carrying every day in every city used a gun to act out on poor impulses, the benefits would still outweigh the negatives.

And that is a viable argument, much more viable then "People who carry guns don't ever act irresponsibly and or shoot people or act in a way that they normally would not have had they not had a gun".

~Matt

Nobody argued that doesn't happen. In fact I stayed it certainly does. Just not to the blood in the streets level Bloomberg and his ilk would have you believe. And certainly works on the opposite spectrum as i anecdotally described. But certainly any perceived risk is well
Outweighed by the benefits for which ample evidence supports.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

I live in Georgia and that is pretty much the process. It take about six weeks here to get the judge to sign the permit and send it.

WA

While I totally get your point, my immediate reaction to this was if I was in the situation is that I would try to get the plates of the vehicle, but my primary concern would be stabilizing the gunshot victim first.
Of course we don't know if others were doing that, but ...

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Jim
"In dog beers, I've only had one"
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