I look it at this way: if I was offered the IMHI slot would I go, stand alone? The problem I have is cost. From FL it is extremely expensive. I am registered for IMCDA in 6/04 and IMouse in 5/04. I would look at the opportunity more as a vacation to HI than an IM slot. For me, satisfaction would be from finishing the distance, not the status or location of the race.

I believe that was the intention of IMNA races. To bring the experience to people on the Continent. Some people these races as sub IMHI or a stepping stone to IMHI. It all depends on your perspective.

In my eyes, you are an IM for doing Lake Placid. I would also not be surprised if LP was labeled more difficult than Kona. To the public outside triathlon, there is only IMHI. To yourself, you accomplished an incredible feat.

Some thoughts:

1. There is no question that IMH has the highest profile of any of the IM races around the world. It has penetrated through to the non-triathlon/athletic masses that it is THE big race in the sport.The main reason for that is the on-going NBC coverage/show. The coverage in other media/news is still just a blip. I would guess that it is like the Tour de France in that regard - no other cycling race has the profile world-wide that the TDF has both inside and out side the world of cycling.

2. IMH is indeed a special and extraordinary race in a number of different ways. I have not been in a number of years, but from what I have seen many of the other IM sanctioned races, in particular the IM North America events in the US and Canada offer a similar quality experience for the participant.

3. My feeling is that an Ironman is an ironman. If you swim 2.5/cycle 112/run 26.2 you have done an I(i)ronman. I did the Vineman one year back in the early '90's and brand aside, my legs and body was just as beat-up and tired after doing that as when I did IM Canada or any other sanctioned Ironman. At the time, the Vineman experience was not quite on par with the very high quality experience you get today at an IM North America event, but to me that was part of the attraction.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Ironscam doesn't mean anything to me. I look at triathletes doing M-dot's the same way I look at kids buying Air Jordans or Members Only jackets. It's their money to spend as they please, but they are essentially paying a lot of money for a "bragging right".

I've done 4 IM distance races and I get the same comments about Hawaii. But it doesn't bother me since I don't race to revel in my accomplishments. I race because I like to race.

Unlike many on this page, I have no problem with WTC or IMNA. I've actually done Pineman, IMUSALP, IMC, IMWis, IMUSACdA, and Kona (in that order).

While everyone races for personal reasons, I always find it interesting that people have seemingly contradictory comments regarding Kona (such as "All I care about is racing...Kona doesn't interest me"...Of course, the fastest best AG racing occurs at Kona so doesn't that mean Kona should be a racing goal?) Here are my thoughts in no particular order:

M-Dot branded races are better run...Period. Nobody puts on a better show than Graham and Lew.

M-Dot branded races cost more. You pay a premium for the larger event atmosphere, organization, increased likelihood of a safe, well-run race (consider it an insurance premium).

Kona is the biggest race in the World.

Kona has the best competitors.

Kona has ONE of the most challenging courses (consistently only trumped only by EmbrunMan and Lanzarote...Don't bother mentioning Norseman and "races" with only 20 competitors...They don't get included due to the fact that they are basically glorified training days amongst a bunch of locals...You gotta have competitors to have a "race")

Kona is "special." Almost everyone who races there will come back and tell you it has a very different vibe than you'll get in Ohio...

If you are serious about going fast, qualifying for Kona is a great yard stick...Ultimately, going fast is a personal goal, but Kona is like a nice reward for meeting your personal goal.

Kona is very corporate. However, as an athlete that translates to more swag, more competition, more coverage, and more for your family and friends to do while you're 50 miles away in Hawi.

Kona is one of the best triathlon vacations for your family (surfing, snorkeling, volcanoes, rain forests, exciting racing)...Simply put, there is more "non-triathlon activity" than you'll find at any IMNA Event.

Kona makes you feel like a King for a day...They treat athletes with white gloves which is really nice.

In short, I loved being there. Does it define my approach to Ironman? No. Setting new goals within the sport does. Will I accept a slot if I qualify again? You betcha! ;-)

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http://wattieink.com/elite-team/
Raising funds to help wounded veterans and racing RAAM 2013 with http://team4mil.org/
"If you are gonna charge... CHARGE HARD!"

Great post.

A couple of comments:

"Kona has the best competitors." - Possibly. With the proliferation of IM races around the world, we are starting to see a sub-set of pros who are happy with going to the smaller races and only occaisionally going to IM. Also, there are many top age-groupers who go to kona only occiasiuonally or never, despite qualifying every year due to the expense, the time of the year and other factors.

"Kona is one of the best triathlon vacations for your family (surfing, snorkeling, volcanoes, rain forests, exciting racing)...Simply put, there is more "non-triathlon activity" than you'll find at any IMNA Event." - Indeed. Strange thing is that many people never make it out of Kailua town!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

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http://www.endurancesports.ca
Coaching and Training Camps

Gotta disagree with you on this one Fleck. No race comes close to the depth of the field at Kona. At IMLP I finished 14th in my age group(35-39), at Kona 109, and I thought I had a pretty good race. Also look at all the pros who do Kona, almost anybody who is anybody is there with a few exceptions. Sure maybe it's not everybodies "A" race in terms of fitness peaking but the amount of talent amassed in Kona is staggering.

There is only one World Championship.

Is it special? Yup.

Wow, This is a good question and a good thread. I'm glad I read it.

I was fortunate enough to qualify for and do Kona WAAAYYYYYY back in 1986. That was the last year before aerobars were used there, or anywhere in triathlon. Truthfully, I am so thankful and grateful I did that race. It seems like it is the roots of my involvement in triathlons. When I did it I presumed that would be the end of my involvement in the sport, and it almost was since I had a series of bad accidents the following year. In 1987 when I returned to Kona as a journalist it was the first time I was able to run after a year of physical therapy and rehab. I took my first running steps on Alii drive. It was huge.

I hate to admit this, but Kona was and is important to me. It is a calling card. Just like you, people would say to me, "Oh, you're one of those triathloner guys- have you ever done that one in Hawaii?" Being able to answer "yes" to that question does feel pretty good.

Ironman Hawaii is the only finisher's medal other than Marathon des Sables and Desert Cup that I kept (except for all the local races and my Laguna Phuket medal, which I also kept, along with Antarctic Marathon). I gave my finisher's medals for Ironman Canada ('97 & '99) away to people who helped me prepare for the race.

There is something about Hawaii, even with all the hype- or maybe because of it. It's the original. I clearly recall making that last right hand turn onto Alii drive for the run finish. Huge.

Another thing is that when I did Ironman Hawaii in 1986 I went 12:24:56, at 25 years old, no injuries but no aerobars, no race wheels, no fancy stuff. Thirteen years later at Ironman Canada 1997 I went two hours faster. I was 13 years older, had a number of big knee surgeries and a broken back, broken tailbone, a list of injuries you wouldn't even believe. But I was still two hours faster. That was a big deal to me.

Someday I want to go back to Kona, and I think I can. I finished in 1986 in the dark. My finisher photo was taken in the dark. I don't like that. I want to finish in Kona with the sun up, high in the sky, like I did in Canada twice.

We'll see. Say what you want, but it isn't too hard to make an effective argument for that fact that Kona is the big show. Not to diminish the other races, they're all 140.6 miles. But IM Kona is the big one.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I tend to second Puskas' thoughts. I've been to Kona three times and done five other IMNA IM's. The bottom line is, when you're treading water at the start in Kailua bay, you say to yourself, "Wow! it doesn't get any better than this!" And, it's nice to remind yourself, that you are IN the big one. Having said that, as an AGer, you get basically lost in the shuffle and become part of the local color if you will. Kona is really about the Pros. The non Hawaii races are about the AGers. Doing both has it's pluses and minuses. It's fun to get around to the different events and meet the fellow athletes, that's the best part. The courses and the conditions are going to vary a lot. Have fun and remember, "if it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing"

I was a bit surprised by a lot of the responses to this question. The answers were what I would expect from a civilian/layperson/non-triathlete, not a bunch of Ironmen.

It is simple to me: 140.6 in < 17 hours = IronMan.

Yes, HI or LP might have more fans or a better feel. But anyone who covers the distance should look into the mirror the next morning and feel the same. This experience, training for and testing ourselves throughout, is about a personal journey. Like that kid who was passed out taking a nap on the broadcast on Saturday and went on to finish. He looked inside himself and pushed on. We all have some moment, to varying degrees, like that. And that is what makes us IronMen.

As the announcer says at the end of any Ironman distance race, "IronDuck, You ARE an IronMan!"

Going to Kona, would simply be for the civilians. I finished for the man in the mirror.

As a pre-IronCurmudgeon(Damn! that would have made a great screen name!), these are my thoughts:

The typical civilian doesn't know that Kona is something you qualify for. They just know it's the big race in Hawaii, and who wouldn't want to do that? Better to discuss the many glorious flavors of Doritos.(Rule One: Know your audience.)

You are an Ironman regardless of whose race you finish. As long as you finish.

Kona is the Holy Grail of triathlon. Whether or not that means anything to you is personal.

Kona is about the only race that the 'average' person can get into that is the World Championships. I look forward to doing IMUSA next year, but no one is going to see my race on TV.(That's not why I do tri's, but doing a network broadcast race is pretty cool!) Okay, the 2000 people who haunt this forum will watch, but they won't see me anyhow, because 'm not gonna win.

I would love to do Kona, but after calculating what Lake Placid is going to cost, I'm thinking that I'll be a serial trainer who does only small local races. If IMUSA costs $2500, and I'm driving up there, Kona's gotta be at least a $6,000 trip. Bottom line: If I qualify for Kona next year, which is doubtful, I won't have the money to go. I'm not poor, but my last 1/2 IM cost < $300, including gas, food, and hotel room. $2500+ per race is plumb crazy!

I would love to do Kona, but I won't lose any sleep over it if I don't.

If I go to Kona and complete the race course by myself, do I get credit for completing IMH? ;p Will it really matter to anyone but me?

I know someone who passed on Kona so she could race, and win, the Great Floridian. Would you rather finish Kona or win a different IM?

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Question in response to a sentiment expressed in a couple places in this thread:

"It is simple to me: 140.6 in < 17 hours = IronMan."

If someone wakes up on any given morning, heads out the door at 7am, and swims 2.4, bikes 112, and runs 26.2 by midnight, is he/she an Ironman?

No aid stations, no volunteers, no cheering fans, no Mike Reilley at the finish. A tough SOB, for sure, but an Ironman?

Or how about this: would you list a 26-mile training run in your resume of marathons?

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Mr. Tom there was one prototype set of aerobars in 1986 and I have a picture somewhere. It was a toilet lid with two one inch dowels for hand grippers. I saw this guy and thought Hmmmmm? In 1987 half the field had bars. Aloha G

If someone wakes up on any given morning, heads out the door at 7am, and swims 2.4, bikes 112, and runs 26.2 by midnight, is he/she an Ironman?

I would say YES!!! if they finished it within 17 hours.
Bit I prefer to do an organised race becuase of the aid, safety, and of course the competition
Pluto

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"Or how about this: would you list a 26-mile training run in your resume of marathons?"

I generally say that I have run marathon distance training runs. Casual runners are often impressed that I had enough motivation to run 42km without being in a race.

A friend of mine did his first long distance Tri in Nice...4km-130km-30km...
he finished with a pretty good time and visibly tired...
then his mother in law (who knows about Hawaii) told him "so when do you do a real one?"
huh??
what's wrong with in laws??

I've had people say that as well...mixed company consisting of triathletes and "others", one person asked a guy on my team when we was going to do a "REAL" tri, instead of "just" a sprint...

i have been somewhat shocked by what people's reactions to the sport have been, and the common misconception that "ONLY" ironman is triathlon, nothing else...

i was asked, so what would an olympic guy finish the ironman in if you did it in xx:xx:xx...i was like...well....they dont race that distance, but the pros who do finish in 8 and change...

he didnt get it...

oh well

im just rambling..back to studying...

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"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

We define ourselves. I am a man that set a goal and accomplished it. John Collins was right. If you quit no one will care but you will know for the rest of your life. This goes for your goals as well as your races no matter where they occur or at what distance. If I were doing this for others I would be doing it for all the wrong reasons.



I am a finisher of my goals. It feels good!