Of course

Totally in line

Right

Thank you

The top frames are very close no one is disagreeing there. That doesn't mean every frame is. Wasnt the original comparison a p2 vs a p5 those two aren't close.

Just to continue beating the dead horse. Where are you getting your info that the pros don't pay attention to bike frames? Why do you think all the TdF teams have 'super bikes' now? Do you think it is because in past years the top riders and teams pushed the bike companies to make better frames in order to keep up or gain more of an advantage? Also, most of the best pros use TT bikes unless it is an uphill TT like Alpe d'Heuz.

Of course using pros as a way to determine what is important in terms of speed has all of its own challenges. We don't know how much power a pro has to ride the bike they want. Are they told they must ride a P5, or would they be allowed to ride an S5 or R5 in the TT? Could they even ride an old P2 if they thought that was a better 'experience' for them (not sure why you like that word so much??). Pros also have people that can focus on the details for them. They don't need to spend all of their time on a bike frame, they have team directors and equipment experts to do that for them. They can focus on their physical/mental preparation and being comfortable/efficient on their equipment. Amateurs need to handle all of those aspects on their own.

This thread is about the TTT, and that was what my reply was referring to. No doubt there are plenty of bikes slower than protour equipment.

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Styrrell

No, that "blown turn" cost them nothing in terms of time. It happened 4 or 5 riders back. The front guys likely never even knew it happened. They were setting the pace and never let up. It cost Bakelats a bit of extra effort to close the (small) gap, but it did not slow them down in the slightest.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

straw man

Care less doesn't mean don't care...

Get it right

The irony.

Its a team time trial, blown turns mean guys have to cover gaps which means less energy to pull when its their turn. Orica likely won because they are an Austrailian team and AUS has a strong team pursuit and track program. Close riding and good exchanges are what makes a TTT.

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Styrrell

Can you provide some evidence that they care less about frame and equipment choice than other aspects of the race? And be sure to include all the people hired to help with equipment and other aspects of the race.

But that particular turn cost them nothing.....there was barely even a gap that had to be closed. Whatever extra watts Bakelants spent closing it was minuscule and had no effect on their overall time.

Multiple blown turns with larger gaps? Absolutely. That particular blown turn.....not so much.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Dude,

It doesn't matter. If you wanna believe that any one TT frame is significantly faster than have at it. It's beautiful. Life is beautiful, get out on your fast frame and kick some ass.

I can't defeat the giant "aero" sacred cow here, with any amount of reason, logic, MIT test data, or anectdotal experiential evidence.
And I certainly wouldn't want Cervelo to sell even one less bike.

I have to go to bed, I'm racing my 2006 Aluminum frame crit bike tomorow. I know that I'll be faster on $12K Cervelo, - but I'll endeavor to soldier on. BTW: My "other" bike is a Time.

Not so much but some. Thats why they have a TTT vs just a TT and averaging the times. That turn only costs a fraction but add up lots of small stuff and, well, it adds up.

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Styrrell

Damn...6 years later and you still have problems with the concept of "Ceteris Paribus" ("all other things being equal")

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ing=toenail;#1424001

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ing=toenail;#1801514

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ing=toenail;#1802183

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ing=toenail;#2306337

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Contador/Schleck proved you wrong.

On the run up to the finish line all things can never be equal.

Haha...didn't know that he has a 5yr+ history of railing incoherently against aero developments.

Back on the TTT topic...looks like from the pictures, all the teams are quite close in equipment choices. All on TT frames with disk wheels, aero helmets, skinsuits (some long arm, fewer short arms), shoe covers. Didn't dig too far, so not sure what the front wheels were or tires and smaller details. Gotta think that someone is paying attention to the aero details when they are looking to hold 50+ km/hr and have the results determined by seconds.

In what way?


Yup...you still don't get it.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Are you talking about 2010 TdF? Weren't both racing the same bike, how does that prove anything?

Wow, 2 days ago we had some fitter arguing seat tube angles with Dan, now we have some dude arguing aero gains with jackmott and Tom A. Tomorrow I am going to go argue the existence of Bosons with Peter Higgs by throwing peanuts at a wall and seeing what bits fall off.

Sorry, I only remember it was "less."

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

Back in 2007 I had 3 bikes which I was using to attempt to ride the fastest time in a 10 mile time trial at the Lowes Motor Speedway.
Bikes
Trek Equinox 9.9
Mongoose(the funny frame without a top tube)
Blue TT frame...don't remember the model

Wheels/ all tubular
Zipp 1080 and Hed 3 front
Zipp rear disc(don't remember the model)

The setup on each bike was as close as possible.

Results
1. 19:17...Trek Equinox/ Hed 3/Zipp Disc
2.19:19...Mongoose...Zipp 1080/Zipp Disc
3. 19:20...Blue....Hed 3/ Zipp Disc

I believe that the weather conditions played the ultimate deciding factor

I did a similar "shootout" between my Softride, QR Cd 0.1, and Scott Foil - all with same wheel combinations....and the winner was????

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast