RE:The United States' popularity in many countries — including longtime allies in Europe — is lagging behind even communist China.

Well who has China invaded lately? Did you notice Microserf provides filters for Chines web sites so certain words like "freedom" and "democracy" are not seen by their own people? BTW why is it always communist China and never capitalist America? Because of Formosa/Taiwan?

---

"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

Funny, I don't see anyone trying to get into Communist China, except from communist North Korea of course. I read a statistic the other day that noted that one out of every eleven people born in Mexico is now in the United States.

Tell me again, how popular and unpopular the respective countries are. Then explain why people are dying to get into here and dying to get out of China.

I don't understand Bush's double standard foreign policy regarding communist countries. It's fine to do lots of business with China but the embargo against Cuba still stays.

Guess Jeb didn't need the Chinese votes in Florida.

I think a more accurate statement of the current policy is that the embargo against Castro stays. He seems to be the real issue. It's good to trade with China because it helps us get a foot in the door for other things like human rights, democratic govt, etc. If we bring them into the global community then we can begin to make them play by that community's rules. Cuba is another issue that has mainly to do with Castro and the island's proximity to the U.S. as far as I can tell.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

"If we bring them into the global community then we can begin to make them play by that community's rules."

The same also applies to Cuba. If the US had a more open policy towards Cuba, Castro may have been gone by now. I've been there a few times as a tourist/scuba diver. The resorts are packed with Canadians and Euros but the few Americans I've met there go illegally flying out of Canada or Mexico. This US policy makes no sense IMO and is totally out of step with the rest of the world. The missile crisis was over forty years ago.

Well I won't pretend to understand all of our policy towards Cuba, but apparently Castro hasn't gone anywhere despite the large influx of Europeans and Canadians, so I'm not sure how opening U.S. trade would result in him having been gone by now.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I don't think I have heard anyone in the last 20 years argue that the current policy makes any sense. It has been our policy for decades now though, and no one considers it important enough to take the political heat that would result from trying to correct it.

This problem is self correcting. It will change after Castro dies. It won't happen before that.

This "by negotiating with tyrants and supporting their regimes we have a better chance to influence them with regards to human rights" is a bullshit line often fed by administrations interested in nothing more than pursuing/maintaining economic dominance.

It's a load of shit.

Do you ever sieze the opportunity to shut your mouth? Every time you open it with regards to foreign policy, you make it clear exactly how much of an ass you are.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Need a kleenex?

If there were a billion Cubans hungry for TVs, cars, stereos, etc... you bet your ass there'd be McDonalds all over Havana and America tourists checking out the Bay of Pigs.

---

----------------------------------------------------------
"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

People may want to live here, but they may not like us. I think those are two different issues. Plus, you don't see a lot of Western Europeans clamoring to get into the States. Central and South Americans may all want to live in the US, but even still they may think our foreign policy stinks (I feel confident they do, they can't possibly like the talk about shutting down our borders).

People don't actually like China, they just like their cheaply manufactured goods. And people don't like us because of the giant double standard that exists on the US: anything good we do is ignored, and anything bad we do is multiplied by a factor of 10.

Finally: best country != most popular country

"Need a kleenex?"

Huh? I see you aren't getting any better at this. Keep trying if you must.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Popularity isn't the point. Money is.

China and the U.S. are not in competition, were are in it together, whether people admit it or not: The U.S. is utterly dependent on China and China is utterly dependent on the U.S. Our economies are as intertwined as never before and more intertwined than any superpowers have ever been in history. Example: If China gets a better deal on its oil we will benefit over here. Cheaper goods from them, we sell more of our stuff to China, etc. Its in the world interest to keep both mega economies humming along.

But both the China and the U.S. aren't looking ahead enough: Shitty infrastructure, pollution and utter dependence on oil are hallmarks of both nations (and the world, for the most part). China's just worse because they have 5X the people, less money and are desparate to catch up. The scary thought is if either economy unravels, both will suffer.

China-Cuba comparisons are silly. Cuba is tiny and not a very big factor economically. China is key and poised to become the second-richest nation on Earth in a few years. So even though China (and Saudi Arabia for that matter) have worse regimes than Castro's (how many people has Castro imprisoned and executed lately? nothing compared to China or Muslim countries), they will always get passes because money trumps human rights every time.