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Re: Martyr complexes [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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Is that different from other developed nations? (Serious question.)

Yes. Most developed nations have proficiency tests that determine what type of schooling you will get.

If teaching were only as simple as "getting them to learn content and problem-solving skills". I won't go into it thoroughly because the information is just so abundant and over-whelming. I am taking my 5th master's class (4 A's so far ... thank you, thank you), and each class we read about 500 pages worth of information. All of it is worthwhile and important in the discussion. There is no way I can summarize 2000-2500 pages of content into a coherant and readable post.

I have said before, for many kids I am equal parts "Uncle Ryan" and "Mr. Bemont". I connect with the kids, and I love that age group. I wish every kid came to school with their emotional and physical needs met, but that is becoming rarer and rarer. I truly care about the kids, but the demands being placed within the classroom are increasing and increasing. At some point, something has to give.

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I have typed this post about 5 different times changing what I wanted to highlight. There are just so many issues involved here.

I'll simplify ... one of the main problems is high teacher turnover. Once good teachers get a little experience at lesser schools, they are scooped up by better schools. So essentially, the schools that face the most challenges get left with the lesser teachers.

Furthermore, the schools that have the most needs and the most challenges are the ones that get punished by NCLB ... and the schools that have every advantage, get rewarded.

Combine those two aspects with the ever increasing demands on schools (sex ed, social skills, anti-bullying, anti-ddrug instruction, breakfast programs, after school programs, anti-gang instruction, etc) and the disparity among the haves and the have-nots grows every year.

My school is rather diverse for its size, and has a rapdily growing percent of lower income students. I teach in a town that used to have many factories supporting the economy. There is one factory left, and the town has felt the demise. However, our state test science scores are higher than the state average for the student that "meet expectations". We are proud of that. Yet, we are on the academic watch list. The good young teachers we have now, will likely be teaching elsewhere in a few years. We do what we can with what we have.

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Politicians do not make aplatform by highlighting how well certain schools are doing with the limited resources they have. They make a platform by painting a grim picture of how they are failing, so they can present themselves as the knight in shining armor on a white horse that is going to ride in and save the day. Highlighting what schools are doing right works against them.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
Last edited by: TripleThreat: Jun 17, 05 23:04
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Re: Martyr complexes [TripleThreat] [ In reply to ]
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"Yes. Most developed nations have proficiency tests that determine what type of schooling you will get."
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Ok, give me some examples - not just "most developed nations". That's not the case in the UK and NZ for example.

It's interesting to look at the stats on Nationmaster.com. US comes out pretty well in a lot of catagories - Highest average number of schooling years for adults for example
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/edu_ave_yea_of_sch_of_adu

but low in lots of other categories such as literacy.
http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph-T/edu_rea_lit&int=50

Very enjoyable website to poke around in.
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Re: Martyr complexes [davet] [ In reply to ]
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some examples:

I'm from Austria, and there are High school entry exams. if you don't pass the exam (approximately 20 % didn't when i took mine a loooong time ago), you can't go to high school. Options: a three-year school, similar to learning a trade such as car mechanic, hairdresser, etc., or try another school.

That said, HS is still hard in Austria: it is common to have to repeat a year. if you 'specialize' (i went to a biz HS, my brothers went to an electronics one), high school takes 5 years instead of 4. it's really like 3 or 4 semesters of college rolled into HS. In my class (about 70 kids), only 6 or 7 made it through 5 years without having to repeat a year, and I don't know how many of those passed the final exams (most of them though).

In some Euro countries such as Germany, a similar thing exists for entry into college (based on your grades in HS). iirc from 'Bend it like Beckham' ;-), ,there are also entry exams into university in the UK.

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I touched upon schooling years per person above - i think that's a very poor index of education. my older brother has never set foot in a university, and he's an IT manager at a large bank w/ 12 guys working for him. I've never heard of an American kid flunking a year in high school.


Josef
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blog
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Re: Martyr complexes [davet] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, give me some examples - not just "most developed nations". That's not the case in the UK and NZ for example.

If I can gather the information (and am willing to), I will compile a list of nations. When I was listening to the information presented, I was recording it for future reference. It was preliminary information to set the basis of what we were getting into. I am reporting what we were informed by our professer during a master's class that included analyzing education statistics ... with an emphasis on those from A Nation at Risk to try and see where legitimate problems exist and where the numbers represent problems that are not really there.

I would also change my wording of "most developed nations" to "some developed nation". As I mentioned before, I am only "informed" ... and to be informed is to be at the mercy of your "informer". I do not know exactl how many "developed nations" there are, what defines a "developed nation", and the exact number of those nations have proficiency/entrance exams to secondary schools. It is not uncommon, that I can say with confidence.

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It is also not always accurate to compare schools that go from Sept-May with 8 hour days, and schools that go year-round, and have longer days.

I am for year-round school ... IMO, many student, especially the lower level kids forget much of the stuff they "learned" the previous year and need to spend at least 2 months or reviewing that infor before new info could be learned. That's a waste of time. I'm for year-round school, but not necessarily longer days ... unless the 2-3 hours after school could be supervised by volunteer parents, aids, tutors, administration, etc. There are other things I do ... coach, train, family, and quite a bit of work from home (power point presentations, note-taking guide, scanned pictures-graphs-etc).

In many-some districts, it is in fact, the parents that opposse the year-round, longer day schedule. Some high schools in Evanston, IL are changing their days from 10AM to 5PM to account for the biorythum of teens based on a 2-year study they were invovled in. I'm rambling ...

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
Last edited by: TripleThreat: Jun 19, 05 13:54
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