okay, seat lowered, elbows under shoulders (I think, from my vantage point but a foto will show the truth) and I'm trying to roll back on my sit bones in aero but can't really get there. So still squishing the labia but the clit is doing better on teh old saddle. Still hoping for healing...

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

Since Tom Demerly is aware of your situation from the BT posts, why not contact him about having an Adamo hand-delivered via FEDEX or UPS directly to your home? Many women, including myself and trackie clm have ridden thousands of miles on the Adamo saddle.

I hope you weather your 15 minutes of internet fame and flame well and with good humor ;-)

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DFL > DNF > DNS

If you can figure out how to get one down in Mexico, I'll add another vote for the Adamo. I was having similar comfort issues when I moved to a tri bike, because riding on the nose just plain sucked. I haven't read through your thread on BT, so apologies if this has already been covered, but some other factors to look at would be how your bike shorts fit (too loose, seam placement, etc.) Chamois butter is also key (for me.) And finally, if you haven't already done so, get rid of any hair down there. Less friction is your friend in this situation.

I hope you can get it figured out!

M

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The beatings will continue until morale improves

Kathy,
Way to stand up to the asshats on the main forum. And they wonder why the womens is needed? Funny how some of those fellows don't seem to know the difference between a vagina and a clit, or even where the clit is located. And somehow they managed to both ridicule the subject and then turn the thread into a pissing match amongst themselves.

I had a similar issue, although it was bruising on the pubic bone rather than soft tissue. Ultimately the most important parts of the solution were getting the fit correct on the bike, and learning how to properly tilt my pelvis while keeping my back muscles engaged. Adamo helped a little, but not until I also did the above.

keep us posted on your quest. I know how it feels to want to throw the bike in a ditch in a fit of pain and frustration.

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No coasting in running and no crying in baseball

I was using a Selle Italia Gel Flow Ladies Saddle on my MTB and I was very satisfied with it. I bought it also after a lot of discomfort with various other saddles. Then I bought my road bike and the saddle was like torture, so I ended using my MTB saddle on the road bike. It looks a bit odd (very wide and soft) so I tried a road saddle with cutout, also from Selle Italia, but it was not good. So I think that the cutout + gel do the trick for me. For the time being I have one saddle per two bikes but I will most probably end up buying another saddle of exactly the same model.


Looks like this:

I've read through most of the posts and hope I can offer some further insight. You very first post on BT said you have recently added aero bars to your road bike and you are comfortable in a road position (ie. sitting up more than a tri position.)

Before you drive yourself crazy trying different saddles, I think the first thing you need to do is adjust your posittion to be suitable for tri bars. This basically means getting the saddle further forward. Putting tri bars on a road bike reduces your hip angle, and in doing so puts pressure further forward on your genitals.

I suggest you need to put a forward facing seatpost on your bike (such as the Profile Fast Forward) and get the front of your saddle with 2cm of being behind a vertical line from the bottom bracket. I see you have tried moving your seat forward, but the angle of the frame on a road bike will simply not allow you to forward enough for a tri position. I did set up a road bike with aero bars by turning the seatpost 180 deg so the saddle bracket was actually facing forward, and that allowed me to get the saddle far enough forward.

Before you spend alot of time and money on different saddles, please try and adjust your position and geometry first by getting the saddle alot further forward. The angles on a road frame have not been designed for aero bars, but you can replicate a tri bike geometry somewhat by getting the saddle further forward as it would be on a tri bike.

I posted this at BT yesterday and if you're not in and would like to chime in, I'd appreciate it. First, please read the whole thread because I think my posts might answer some questions. Here's my last response:

"(quote from Yanti)
The value of properly-fitting bike shorts can't be overestimated. For one thing, if they are skin-tight and worn that way (as they should be) they will hold your labia together so that your clitoris won't even touch the fabric. If there's any pressure or friction, it'll be borne by the far-less sensitive labia that have a fat layer underneath. With the properly fitting shorts, pressure from the saddle will actually cause the lips to hold tighter together, not spread apart to expose the clitoris."

My response:
Ok, now this is something I was pondering on today's ride and thank you SO MUCH for being so specific. After switching to my DH's stem and saddle from the Bontrager, I realized that "normal" for me was to feel public bones rolling over soft tissue constantly and once I got on DH's saddle I no longer felt the rolling/movement. Today I spent most of 40 km in aero and was shocked to find no open sores when I got home. That is a first for me. I did first Desitin, then chamois buttr and then vaseline and just before I left I added more ChamoisButtr. I was sure it was Too Much but I wanted to be able to put the "not enough lube" thought to rest. I've always thought I used enough but today I was certain. I am also sure that part of the problem is the raised nose on the Bontrager.

HOWEVER, I have to ride on my right ischium (note, not the ischial tuberosity that i'm on in non-aero) and cannot side directly straight on the saddle without much pain, and I was wondering today if it is normal to have you labia open up when sitting directly on the saddle as mine ALWAYS *feel* open. I usually get out of the saddle then and try to get things to shift back together but once I sit down again I'm back to square one, so off I sit on the side in order to be able to sit in aero.

I was CERTAIN my shorts were tight enough but thanks to your post, Yanti, I know they certainly can't be. Is this the case with everyone? Noone has their labia open ohen in aero? That would make SUCH a huge difference in comfort, I'd imagine. Again, thanks everyone."

Some pictures from yesterday. I was trying to relax my lower back which put my head higher and I did have shoulder strain. I did not have short bagging up but on the way back (20 km out and back, our bread-and-butter ride) I was getting bunching on the left inner groin crease (noticeable as I'd chafed there previously trying to make position adjustments. I was swimming in Vaseline yesterday). I'm actually not certain how well these represent my position as I remembered remarking to Jamie that once we started riding again (after taking pictures) my position felt different from the picture ones, but maybe these will help. Seat tube turned 180 degrees, seat forward (will try the measurement you describe later today Kivisisalik) and using my husband's saddle (no bump on the nose).

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

We actually did this yesterday (great idea) trying to get the seat more forward. Swapped my seat post with DH's, swapped saddles (I'm on a Fitzik sp?) and turned seat post around and I'm much more forward. I was MORE forward but it was uncomfortable. An IPOD app said angle shoulder/elbow was very close to 90 (86 to 90) with seat here. Thanks!

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

Thanks so much. I am really trying to put attention to how I'm sitting and back muscles and pelvic tilt. Haven't found the right combination yet, but working on it. Thanks!

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

Good, sounds like you're making some progress. I realise you are having tons of advice thrown at you the moment but can I add one more thing? In your last photo it appears your seat may be too high, your leg is very close to straight and your heel is lifted. It may not have anything to do with your comfort but it could cause you to rock your hips side to side which could put further pressure on your sensitive areas. Notwithstanding the comfort, having the seat too high can compromise power output, but that's a whole diffferent issue. Good luck with solving your issues!

BTW, do you know the name of the app you used to calculate angles? Interested in trying it, thanks.

My DH the bike fitter also says your seat is too high. This from your most recent picture.
Hang in there, I hope you can get things squared away so you are loving the bike again soon.
:)

(I posted this at BT but wanted to update everyone here too)

OMG I think I have a solution and I can't believe it never dawned on me before. I was mulling over Yanti's response above on my run and it occurred to me that perhaps I was only able to sit on one "side" and couldn't get on my sit bones because where I was trying to sit on the saddle was not wide enough. So on today's ride I moved the seat even more forward and also ended up lowering the seat (after reading the thread on "is my seat too high") I noticed I was rocking my hips (even though I never noticed it before). Then I thought hard on Kathy's advice on positioning and tried to "sink in" to the bike and found everything from shoulders to pelvis was able to come down. I think that due to pain, I was unconsciously trying to lift all body parts off the saddle (making it very hard to ride).

I was now able to feel both sides making contact with the saddle and everyone was right - there was no reason for any soft tissues to be riding the saddle. So I think I am on the road to a solution (if not there already). I have had 2 rides with no open sores and I'm very hopeful. I think my problems were 1) the Bontrager saddle with a hump where no woman wants a hump; 2) poor bike fit, 3) poor aero positioning, 4) riding in aero such that NO sit bones were supporting me other than the bone at the very front of the vulva causing all soft tissues to be supporting my weight. This is SUCH a difference now that I'm in a position to be on my sit bones.

Thanks so much to everyone who helped, Yanti and Kathy most especially and the person in the other "high saddle" thread who mentioned rocking hips as a sign your saddle is too high. You guys have open invitations here. Seriously. Thank you again SO MUCH. I still am going to get an Adamo if I can get a good deal on one but for now at least I'm able to ride.

And the weirdest thing is that after the last adjustment it felt like we had a tailwind both ways. I felt so powerful and had a very low HR for as fast I was going. I'd like to think it was the adjustments but think we must have had a freak tailwind on outbound and inbound.
Again, thanks everyone!

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

Your DH was absolutely right! :) thanks!

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

YAY! I'm really glad to hear about your progress.

(If you ever get a chance to get on the mainland for a bike fit, it might still be worth checking out. Perhaps if you are ever ready to have a new bike, you could travel to get one (I think there's a couple of shops in CA and AZ that might do a fly and buy and fit deal), might be a good way to go.)

Regardless - very happy to hear of your positive improvements!!!! :)

Kathy,
I'm so glad you're making some progress. Moving your saddle forward should also help you get your elbows more under your shoulder, so you won't be so stretched out. In addition to what others have said about the seat being too high, I wonder if the bars are a bit high as well. Run a level from the middle of your saddle to your over your pads and measure the drop between the level and your pads. Pads should definitely not be higher than your seat.

And I want to really really encourage you to get the fit nailed before you try the Adamo. I've got one, and it is very sensitive to fit issues. I've found that even with a good fit, it takes awhile to learn to ride it correctly. And with a poor fit, the Adamo can really inflame any existing problems.

Keep us posted!

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No coasting in running and no crying in baseball

thanks so much. I will double efforts to get the fit dialed in then.

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

Ok, updated pictures. Saddle more forward and seat lowered.

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit