I don't understand your example, but--there is a really good little book (can't remember its name--I think it might be called "On Usage") by the authors "Strunk and White" that I used to use all time until somebody ripped it off out of my office. If you can find that book, you will have everything taught to a college english major boiled down into about 50-60 understandable pages. (I never called the book by its name, I just called it by the author's names.)

I probably have about five errors in the above three sentences that I could correct if I had my "Strunk and White." I really need to go buy another one.

it's an odd grammar point of american english.
You even write

Is it true that John said 'Marvin is a really good guy?'

which is quite strange.

But in british english, the punctuation is outside the " "

Are you certain? I'm not so sure.

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"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

Yes, I am. Punctuation would be inside only if it originally belong to the actual quote.

[u]Elements of Style[/u]
by Strunk and White

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Sponsored by: TBA

Fair enough. Although, I would say that your response should have read " I am, yes ". Not, the other way around. Also, there is no such thing as British English, it is just English as opposed to American English etc. If you think about it, Wales is part of British Isles.

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"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

Correct and logical: "Yes, I am."

Technically correct, but illogical: "Punctuation would be inside only if it originally belong."

My Mom (who considers me having asked a grammar question to be the best Mother's day gift ever, so sad) says it should be "Punctuation would be inside ..." if you don't quote the entire sentence.

I've used "Strunk & White" since HS, great book (as far as grammar books go). And since I'm a dork and still own it (and have it in my book shelf) I'll have to go read up. This would be the last needed official sign I'm a total loser: I'm looking up grammar rules on a Saturday night.

I was always taught (at a British school) to punctuate the quotation and the sentence.

So:

John said, "Marvin is a really good guy.".

or

John asked "Is Marvin a really good guy?".

or

What is the difference between "Who are you?" and "How are you?"?

By the way "I'm going to ask my Mom, she knows about this kind of stuff." is, to me, classic misuse of the comma. Try "I'm going to ask my Mom. She knows about this kind of stuff.".

That's it. I gotta get me a new one cuz I ain't righting so good no more.

While we are on the subject of grammar, here is my BIGGEST pet peeve:

Usage of it's and its: remember it's means it is. Before you type it's, say the sentence with "it is" If it doesn't make sense, then use its. I can't believe how bad the usage of this has become, to the point that I see it in advertising, newspapers, magazines etc. How can copy editors miss this, or simply not know it?

It's a sad day when a newspaper cannot replace its editors with people that understand grammar.

it's amazing that people make this mistake. If you write 'its' instead of 'it's' don't you notice that there is no verb in your sentence???

Shouldn't it be Tri'ing in TO? I've lost all respect for your it's/its comment . . .

"it's amazing that people make this mistake. If you write 'its' instead of 'it's' don't you notice that there is no verb in your sentence?"

People don't generally make that mistake. Instead, they use "it's" when they should be using "its", probably out of habit since most possesives use an apostrophe.

As for the quotations, according to Turabian, periods and commas go inside the quotes, semicolons and colons go outside. Question marks and exclamations go outside unless they are a part of the quote itself.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

In my experience, there is a lot of debate on this point. Judge Barksdale on the U.S. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals routinely puts his periods outside the quote marks unless the period is part of the quote. I think this is technically correct, but it does "look funny."

"People don't generally make that mistake. Instead, they use "it's" when they should be using "its", probably out of habit since most possesives use an apostrophe. "

I'd say it's now about 50/50 on forums such as this, to the point that I'm surprised when someone actually gets the possessive sans apostrophe correct.

And "loose" has practically replaced "lose," while few writers can get "whose" and "who's" straight.

Then there is the superfluous apostrophe "S" to denote a plural, like "I really dig those new Nike's you got," or even increasingly in a phrase like "it get's better" (seen here in several posts today).

And more people write "definately" than the correct spelling, although I suppose technically speaking that's not grammar.

This is basic primary school stuff. Maybe somewhere along the line it was determined that teaching proper grammar caused children to "loose" self-esteem.

Oh, Great! Bring politics into it!

"Maybe somewhere along the line it was determined that teaching proper grammar caused children to "loose" self-esteem"

I think it's more likely most people haven't seen any basic grammar instruction since grade school, combined with the fact that they are typing as fast as they can because they want to get their thoughts into their post.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

For all of you doubters, Slowguy has it correct on the quotation mark punctuation. He has stated the rule very eloquently.

There's a book called "Eats, shoots and leaves"(the old joke about the panda)by Lynne Truss that came out last year.Its extremely informative on the correct placement/usage of puctuation marks,and very funny as well.Well worth a read (should be compulsory in school as far as I'm concerned).

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non illigitamus carborundum

I also hang out at a guitar gear forum where there are lots of younger members (high school) - after reading "MeTaliKA rUlZ!!!! LOLOLOLOL" you'd be #$% thrilled to only have to deal with lose/loose.

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