S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue

May 2, 05 9:43

Post #1 of 15 (1605 views)

Adrift on a sailboat without food or fresh water for six days, 17-year-old Josh Long and a friend survived on sea water, raw jellyfish -- and faith.

''We just prayed every day. We prayed for our families, prayed for our lives, prayed to get home. God answered us,'' Long told CBS's ''Early Show'' on Monday. ''I knew he wouldn't let us suffer for no reason.''

I've always wondered about this. How do people, who believe that God answered their prayers in such a situation, address the fact that they got into said situation in the first place? Is it that they think that God had a reason to let them get in trouble, but planned on them being rescued all along; if so, is there any effect to their prayers, or is it a test of their faith or something? Same goes for the baby-survives-horrific-car-accident-unscathed type stories ("he had a guardian angel"): well, where was the guardian angel before the accident happened? Is it a variant on the "God works in mysterious ways" idea?

To forestall vitus979's complaints, I hereby agree to not respond to any responses to this thread. I just want to gain some insight into the thinking that goes on here.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Re: S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue [klehner] [ In reply to ]

May 2, 05 9:50

Post #2 of 15 (1602 views)

To forestall vitus979's complaints, I hereby agree to not respond to any responses to this thread.

Don't go doing that, now, Ken. Hit and run is no fun.

How do people, who believe that God answered their prayers in such a situation, address the fact that they got into said situation in the first place?

Basic stupidity, I guess. (Their own, I mean.) Where's the mystery?

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Re: S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue [klehner] [ In reply to ]

DJHollingsworth

May 2, 05 12:50

Post #3 of 15 (1560 views)

These types of stories are often put out as confirmations of faith and the power of prayer. But of course we never hear about the countless stories of people placed in horrific situations who pray and pray and pray, but yet die a horrible death.

This is another one of my sticking points with faith and especially with prayer. I guess I should qualify this a little. Those of you who make a practice of saying prayers, especially those prayers which are more generic "grant me the strength to make good decisions....thank you for the food...." I don't necessarily have any issue with. It's the "please fix Johnnie's heart...Lord grant me the strength to score more touchdowns than my opponent..." type prayers that really bug me.

Dan Hollingsworth

Nobody grows old by merely living a number of years. People grow old only by deserting their ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up interest wrinkles the soul." - Douglas MacArthur

Re: S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue [Lieutenant_Dan] [ In reply to ]

May 2, 05 14:44

Post #4 of 15 (1539 views)

Lt. Dan,

You make some valid points. The power of prayer is not so much in changing the events around us, but in changing our hearts. Yet, it�s not inconsistent with that to say that I still believe that prayer is instrumental in healing Aunt Mary�s cancer or helping me win a contest. It�s just that the power of prayer is not confirmed or denied based on the outcome, which I believe is in God�s mighty hand. That�s why you might often hear Christians pray -- imitating the Lord�s Prayer, �Not my will, but Thy will be done.� Prayer is more about conforming our desires to God, not vice versa.

Perhaps, we are hypocritical when that�s all we talk about after we scored more touchdowns. This might give the audience the impression that somehow my team�s prayers were greater than the other team�s prayers.

We who pray are often careless when only the requests that we make to the Lord get all the attention. I guess your biggest point was that it seems hypocritical to merely ask for these things. I agree. My prayers are often self-centered and self-righteous. I am duly admonished. I agree that our requests should not be merely to eradicate disease or win races, but to meld our hearts to all righteousness.

However, that doesn�t mean that our petitions for God to heal Aunt Mary�s cancer or to score more touchdowns are sinful. The Bible exhorts its followers to, among other things, petition God with our requests. God wants us to ask for what�s on our hearts; not to pretend that we�re indifferent to Aunt Mary�s disposition or the result of a contest. It�s not unbiblical, hypocritical, or inconsistent.

There is a common acrostic to help with this: A-C-T-S. Adoration, Confession, Thankfulness and Supplication. You can see that only at the end should our prayers consist of requests. Primarily, prayer is to understand who God is and who we are, although sometimes I fall into thinking that it�s merely a mechanism to gain from some great benefactor of my own making.

Last edited by: TriFloyd: May 2, 05 14:49

Re: S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue [TriFloyd] [ In reply to ]

May 2, 05 15:12

Post #5 of 15 (1524 views)

"There is a common acrostic to help with this: A-C-T-S. Adoration, Confession, Thankfulness and Supplication"

I think that's actually an acronym. Regardless, the point is that Christians, in my experience, believe that prayers are always answered, even if the result isn't what we were looking for. People are generally more apt to praise God when things go their way, and that is why you hear that "God answered my prayers" almost exclsuively with good news. However, my understanding, and what I was taught, is that God hears and answers all prayers, you just have to be open to the reply, which will sometimes be something along the lines of "Sorry, not this time. Even though that's what you want, it's not what is best."

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Re: S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue [TriFloyd] [ In reply to ]

DJHollingsworth

May 2, 05 15:23

Post #6 of 15 (1522 views)

TriFloyd,

Thanks for your comments. I should also say, that I would never encourage anyone to not pray. If someone tells me they are praying for me, I do not take offense. Actually I'm touched, because I know they are doing it because they care. I obviously have no way of knowing if it was the prayer or not that led to a specific outcome. None of us do.

I also do think there is some merit to praying and even the more self-centered prayers that I just criticized. I can see how prayer gives someone "strength" and a sense of security in a difficult situation. It just seems rather hypocritical to thank God when things go well, but say nothing when things don't go well.

Dan Hollingsworth

Nobody grows old by merely living a number of years. People grow old only by deserting their ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up interest wrinkles the soul." - Douglas MacArthur

Re: S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue [slowguy] [ In reply to ]

DJHollingsworth

May 2, 05 15:30

Post #7 of 15 (1519 views)

I have heard that many a time before. God answers all prayers, sometimes he just says no. To me that seems like just a convenient and not very creative reply to the argument "Prayer doesn't work". I don't mean this as a personal attack on you, please don't read this as such.

This is the way my brain works, I read this as: Pray, pray, pray, be a good christian and maybe God will answer your prayers and maybe he won't. Or I guess that should say maybe you'll get the answer you want and maybe you won't. Well what if I don't pray, sounds like my odds are just as good. Again, not that praying is a bad thing, it just doesn't do much to advance the argument of does God exist or not.

Dan Hollingsworth

Nobody grows old by merely living a number of years. People grow old only by deserting their ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up interest wrinkles the soul." - Douglas MacArthur

Re: S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue [Lieutenant_Dan] [ In reply to ]

May 2, 05 15:51

Post #8 of 15 (1515 views)

"Again, not that praying is a bad thing, it just doesn't do much to advance the argument of does God exist or not. "

Praying isn't meant to advance the proof of God's existence. It is a way for Christians to communicate with their Lord.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Re: S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue [slowguy] [ In reply to ]

May 2, 05 18:27

Post #9 of 15 (1491 views)

In Reply To:

"There is a common acrostic to help with this: A-C-T-S. Adoration, Confession, Thankfulness and Supplication"

I think that's actually an acronym. Regardless, the point is that Christians, in my experience, believe that prayers are always answered, even if the result isn't what we were looking for. People are generally more apt to praise God when things go their way, and that is why you hear that "God answered my prayers" almost exclsuively with good news. However, my understanding, and what I was taught, is that God hears and answers all prayers, you just have to be open to the reply, which will sometimes be something along the lines of "Sorry, not this time. Even though that's what you want, it's not what is best."

Reminds me of this story (from the Onion orginally)

http://www.artic.edu/~dmerri/god/

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Re: S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue [jhc] [ In reply to ]

DJHollingsworth

May 2, 05 19:56

Post #10 of 15 (1483 views)

I was thinking of that exact same article. Where did you find it? I looked on the Onion website but they got rid of their archived section.

Dan Hollingsworth

Nobody grows old by merely living a number of years. People grow old only by deserting their ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up interest wrinkles the soul." - Douglas MacArthur

Re: S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue [slowguy] [ In reply to ]

DJHollingsworth

May 2, 05 19:59

Post #11 of 15 (1482 views)

You're right, I knew just as I hit send that I wasn't making my point very well. But it was time to log off and go home for the day.

"Answered" prayers have been put forth as evidence of miracles thereby argued as evidence of a higher power. I think that's the point I was trying to get at. I think that prayer gets abused, and really should be used just how you stated as a means of communication with your God/Higher Power.

Dan Hollingsworth

Nobody grows old by merely living a number of years. People grow old only by deserting their ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up interest wrinkles the soul." - Douglas MacArthur

Re: S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue [Lieutenant_Dan] [ In reply to ]

May 2, 05 20:05

Post #12 of 15 (1478 views)

I agree that prayer gets abused sometimes. However, I don't think that many people try to use "answered prayer" as proof of God's existence. I think what they usually do, and what may be misinterpreted as argument for proof, is use "answered prayers" as a personal affirmation of their relationship with God. When someone says something like "Thankfully god answered our prayers and we were saved." I don't think they are trying to prove God's existence so much as express their gratitude to God for saving them.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Re: S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue [Lieutenant_Dan] [ In reply to ]

May 3, 05 9:30

Post #13 of 15 (1452 views)

It's the "please fix Johnnie's heart...Lord grant me the strength to score more touchdowns than my opponent..." type prayers that really bug me.

Well, I guess it's good then that nobody prays to you with requests like that, huh? ;)

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Re: S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue [Lieutenant_Dan] [ In reply to ]

May 3, 05 11:57

Post #14 of 15 (1431 views)

In Reply To:

I was thinking of that exact same article. Where did you find it? I looked on the Onion website but they got rid of their archived section.

Google is your friend :)

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Re: S.C. Teens Credit Higher Power for Rescue [klehner] [ In reply to ]

May 3, 05 12:26

Post #15 of 15 (1426 views)

In Reply To:

Adrift on a sailboat without food or fresh water for six days, 17-year-old Josh Long and a friend survived on sea water, raw jellyfish -- and faith.

Ya see, this is where the media always messes things up.

It wasn't "jellyfish", like the invertebrate, but actually their friend Gerald Fishman, AKA "GerryFish" or "JellyFish."

Yes, there were THREE boys in that boat ... two came back.

"The sea was agnry that day my friends. Angry like an old man trying to return soup in a deli."

"Is that a Titleist???"

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

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