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Re: Things I think I think [martin] [ In reply to ]
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"my "wisdom" makes me find it strange/puzzling that technological progress is (too) often found to be a good thing but ideological ideas should be immune to change"

Welcome to the world. Technological advance has always outpaced mankinds ability to adujst ideology and morality. That's because the two are separate things. technology is based on what men can think up, and what we can actually make work. Ideologies are made up by principles we feel to be true. "Thou shalt not kill" is a truth. The telegram or the steam engine isn't a truth, it's just a tool. Why does it seem odd to you that people are less apt to change what they view as the truth than they are to invent new tools?

By the way, Christianity and religion in general aren't immune to change. they simply change on a much slower timeline.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Things I think I think [mopdahl] [ In reply to ]
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"But since (married couples) do receive certain benefits (tax + insurance + legal) in our society, gay couples should be afforded those same rights."

Why must we always add rather than take away?

"I do--my delivery trucks use biodiesel, and my house is mainly solar powered. That being said, our reliance on foreign oil is a big part of the problem we as a country face, both economically & security-wise. Getting us off our reliance for oil should be a national priority."

Using existing technolgy is not the same as investing in an unproven one to try to advance it to a point of feasabilty. IOW anyone can run out and buy a hybrid. Its quite another to sink a million into something and possibly get nothing back. It think instead of having the government "provide the solution", people like could.

"One of my best friends is a detective...."

The point is that America is VERY VERY target rich. It is impossible to predict what the next targe will be. Despite any amount of intel, detective work or money spent, targets will be available. The simple idea that you name nothing more than "Large" targets is seriously flawed thinking. Multiple small attacks would have serious effect on our phsyce and woudl be next to impossible to stop. Imagine life in the US with multiple daily mall, school, bridge etc etc bombings.

"Or nobody has posted a sufficiently intelligent argument to counter my beliefs."

So you base your political stances on "beliefs" rather than fact? It would seem that fact would be a more rational method of governing than "beliefs". If everything you post on "politics, religion or money" is based on beliefs then of course no one can change your mind.

~Matt
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Re: Things I think I think [Brian286] [ In reply to ]
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I hopped into the end of the thread, so I had to go back to understand the quote. I thought the "I have a near genius IQ" was a self deprecating remark. It didn't seem to match mophal's personality, so I went back to check and it was him bragging.

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight mopdahl. Come back when you get the real thing. Oh, and no, my degree doesn't have State written on it.

I am guessing you are just pissy because you are getting your ass drilled in those currency future guaranteed predictions you made just over three months ago. Either that, or you didn't believe them either, so you stayed on the sidelines.

The people who have to condescend never do measure up. Those that measure up, never have to condescend. So transparent.
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Re: Things I think I think [mopdahl] [ In reply to ]
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I have a question.

You said:

"The church needs to stay out of government & quit trying to govern our morality thru politicians.

Prayer does not belong in public schools. If students want to have a prayer group, so be it; that is what after-school is for. If administrators/teachers want to have a prayer group, they should go teach/work in the private sector."



For many many years now, Christains have opened many private schools in order to have thier children educated within a environment they felt appropiate. They still pay property tax that funds public schools even though their kids go to private school. They tried and failed to get a school voucher system so those who could not afford private tuition would be able to send thier kids.

Why have I not ever heard of a Private School for Atheists?? Why have I not heard of a private school that bans all prayer, bans reference to God, promotes liberal ideas, etc. ???

I have not heard this idea before -- I think atheists should open private schools so thier children can be educated in the environment they want thier children to be raised.

Why should a group of athiests in California dictate what happens at a school in Kansas?? If the people in Kansas want the ten commandments hung in thier childrens school -- why not?? They are paying for thier schools??

If the people of California do NOT want the ten commandments hung in thier school why should the people in Kansas tell them they have too???
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Re: Things I think I think [Sparticus] [ In reply to ]
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Atheists don't need their own private schools, since the Constitution guarantees sepration of Church and State, and hence, secular public schools.If the people in Kansas want the ten commandments hung in thier childrens school -- why not??

Um, you think everyone in Kansas wants the 10 Commandments in public schools? Because they dont.

How about this idea - teach religion in church, and teach factual knowlege in schools.

I strikes me that people must have really weak faiths if they need constant validation from the government.

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Re: Things I think I think [jhc] [ In reply to ]
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Um, you think everyone in Kansas wants the 10 Commandments in public schools? Because they dont. That's protected by freedom of speech/press. If atheists don't want to read them, don't look.


I strikes me that people must have really weak faiths if they need constant validation from the government. It strikes me that atheists have such weak beliefs that they aren't willing to ignore or allow others to freely practice their beliefs which the Constitution equally espouses.
Last edited by: Brian286: Apr 28, 05 12:55
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Re: Things I think I think [jhc] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Atheists don't need their own private schools, since the Constitution guarantees sepration of Church and State, and hence, secular public schools.If the people in Kansas want the ten commandments hung in thier childrens school -- why not??

Um, you think everyone in Kansas wants the 10 Commandments in public schools? Because they dont.

How about this idea - teach religion in church, and teach factual knowlege in schools.

I strikes me that people must have really weak faiths if they need constant validation from the government.


[/url]Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.



Do you really think "Because they don't have too" is a good argument ???

My opinion on the reason -- they expect the government to take care of them. The Government to solve all thier problems and the government to pay for it.

While other feel they should be responsable for themselves and will do whatever it takes (start a school, pay tuition even while still paying taxes toward public school, home school)

It strikes me that people who have no faith need the government to take care of them rather than take care of themselves.

How about a real answer... Why are there no Private schools that promote atheism and liberalism??
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Re: Things I think I think [Sparticus] [ In reply to ]
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How about a real answer... Why are there no Private schools that promote atheism and liberalism??

My daughter goes to an all girls Catholic high school where the nuns burned their bras in the 60s and they had an anti-war rally there last year. She has teachers there with gay pride symbols on their cars. Is that liberalism?


_________
kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts
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Re: Things I think I think [GJS] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
How about a real answer... Why are there no Private schools that promote atheism and liberalism??

My daughter goes to an all girls Catholic high school where the nuns burned their bras in the 60s and they had an anti-war rally there last year. She has teachers there with gay pride symbols on their cars. Is that liberalism?


CATHOLIC school does not equal atheism.

on a side note: there are gay christain groups.
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Re: Things I think I think [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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Among other things, one of your problems is that you are apparently incapable of treating someone with common decency until they've passed some sort of qualification test. After I posted my education, you seem to think we are in some sort of club. We are not.

Hey Asshole, Martin was right--forget about the olive branch...you were the dick who started the personal attacks on this thread with your dipshit comment. But lets move on & actually address your comments on the threads instead of continuing yesterday's jollies.

Nice. So you wouldn't like to drink beer with the head of the Republican party, and you punctuate that insight with "I think he's gay." Fantastic.

Why is it you bible thumpers have absolutely no sense of humour, much less rational perspective? As to your answer, no, the guy couldn't be more uptight if he tried. As to the closet comment (actually didn't punctuate the insight, I alluded to it--you are the one who brought it out in the open). The irony of the point was that the guy is widely rumoured to be gay, yet he can't come out of the closet as your party would not tolerate a homosexual as head of your party, no matter how good a job he does (and I think he has done an excellent job).

On Gays & legal unions: Apparently, the majority of Americans are all living in the 17th Century. The only reason you laugh at moral arguments is that you don't seem to understand that morality plays an integral part in govt and in the process of passing laws. Once again, not much substance.

You really don't want to pursue this line of reasoning do you? Are you saying that the majority of Europeans are immoral? Canadians? Yes, the majority of Americans are living (or wish they did) in the 17th century. Their religious-fed intolerance of alternative lifestyles is disgraceful--akin to the racist south's treatment of blacks up until just recently. What about all men being equal? Not so in the eyes of the bible thumpers---the Christian right's (and Catholic church's) almost fanatical abhorrence of all things homosexual & the related influence on our gov't is shameful--while progress has been made over the last 30 years, I'm afraid it will be another 30 before this fundamentalism is overcome.


I'll answer the rest when I have more time.

____________
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." John Rogers
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Re: Things I think I think [mopdahl] [ In reply to ]
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Are you saying that the majority of Europeans are immoral? Canadians?

Why not? Aren't you saying that the majority of people in Western Civilization are immoral? Somehow it's reasonable to say that they were all wrong, but it's unreasonable to say that contemporary Canadians are?








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Things I think I think [Sparticus] [ In reply to ]
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I'm hoping you understand that the government not funding and mandating the teaching of religion in public school does not, in any way, impinge on the free exercise of religion. For example, students can pray during recess right?

>How about a real answer... Why are there no Private schools that promote atheism and liberalism??


Um, I dont know, why would there be? There are secular private schools that teach "liberalism", but I'm not aware of any that actively teacd atheism, and I see no need for that anyway.

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Re: Things I think I think [Sparticus] [ In reply to ]
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CATHOLIC school does not equal atheism.

on a side note: there are gay christain groups.


Oh really??? hmmm... I guess I read his post as atheism or liberalism, not both atheism AND liberalism. I'm not familiar with private schools that promote both, at least on the secondary level (colleges would be a different story). However, there are a number of secular private schools around here that do not promote religion and conservativism.


_________
kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts
Last edited by: GJS: Apr 28, 05 13:36
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Re: Things I think I think [GJS] [ In reply to ]
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non-secular private schools around here that do not promote religion
typo?

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Re: Things I think I think [jhc] [ In reply to ]
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yep, thanks


_________
kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts
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Re: Things I think I think [mopdahl] [ In reply to ]
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"forget about the olive branch"

Your "olive branch" doesn't mean shit coming right after you say I'm a retarded muskateer, a third member of Dumb and Dumber, and that I'm running my "cock-holster." Shove that olive branch directly up your ass.

"you were the dick who started the personal attacks on this thread "

Nope, you started them with your attack of Vitus, but if that wasn't enough, you could just reference any other post in any other thread to which you've "contributed."

"Why is it you bible thumpers have absolutely no sense of humour"

Why is it anyone who disagrees with you must be a "Bible thumper?" You asked why people didn't seriously address your post. I pointed out why.

"actually didn't punctuate the insight, I alluded to it--you are the one who brought it out in the open"

For someone so close to being a genius, you are not very astute. The point you punctuated was that you wouldn't like to drink with the head of the Republican party. The thing you puntuated it with was your numb-nuts comment about him being in the closet. Try to keep up with the conversation.

"your party would not tolerate a homosexual as head of your party"

How the Hell would you know what party I belong to, or even if I belong to a political party at all? You aren't interested in other people, just hearing the "sound of your own voice." So happens I am a registered Democrat, not that it makes much difference.

"Are you saying that the majority of Europeans are immoral? "

Are you really trying to say that morality doesn't play a part in how the EU and European countries run their business?

"What about all men being equal? Not so in the eyes of the bible thumpers---the Christian right's (and Catholic church's) almost fanatical abhorrence of all things homosexual & the related influence on our gov't is shameful"

Huh? Do you bother to learn anything before you spout crap all over the place? The official stance of the Catholic Church is that homosexuals are not evil, but that homosexual sex is a sin. Doesn't sound like "abhorrence of all things homosexual" to me. I'm not sure about all Protestant denominations, but some allow gay ministers. Doesn't sound like "abhorrence of all things homosexual" to me.

"I'll answer the rest when I have more time"

Don't bother. You're not doing any better this time around.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Things I think I think [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
"Thou shalt not kill" is a truth. Do they teach that in the army ?????


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Fuck a duck and try to fly
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Re: Things I think I think [Kanipupski] [ In reply to ]
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"Thou shalt not kill" is a truth. Do they teach that in the army ?????"

Well I probably should have said "Thou shalt not murder" since that's what my Bible says. However, I don't think anyone ever claimed that the military in the U.S. was without sin. The military's job isn't to be an army of God, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Things I think I think [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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You just killed my point ! It was the kill/murder thing...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Fuck a duck and try to fly
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