I just happened to come across a very in-depth article in the NY times, The Fat Trap, which I think would aid this discussion. Normally I'm not a huge fan of the science/wellness articles at the NYT, because they oversimplify and misquote, but this seems pretty legit. Even if you don't make it through all eight pages, try to get through page 4 and read about Mrs. Bridge.

Here's one paragraph that stuck out for me (in case you want a synopsis):

"The National Weight Control Registry tracks 10,000 people who have lost weight and have kept it off....There is no consistent pattern to how people in the registry lost weight — some did it on Weight Watchers, others with Jenny Craig, some by cutting carbs on the Atkins diet and a very small number lost weight through surgery. But their eating and exercise habits appear to reflect what researchers find in the lab: to lose weight and keep it off, a person must eat fewer calories and exercise far more than a person who maintains the same weight naturally. Registry members exercise about an hour or more each day — the average weight-loser puts in the equivalent of a four-mile daily walk, seven days a week. They get on a scale every day in order to keep their weight within a narrow range. They eat breakfast regularly. Most watch less than half as much television as the overall population. They eat the same foods and in the same patterns consistently each day and don’t “cheat” on weekends or holidays. They also appear to eat less than most people, with estimates ranging from 50 to 300 fewer daily calories."

The major conclusions are:
*It appears there is a complicated genetic predisposition to obesity for some people
*Gaining weight quickly, being overweight for a short time, then losing it and keeping it down is MUCH more successful than being overweight for a long time, then losing it--
*The hypothesis is that the body has some sort of metabolic reset button after being overweight for some time. In mice, the critical time is about 8 months (fat mice can become skinny again without too much struggle as long as they were fat for less than 8 months), but for humans it appears to be more like several years.

This is sad, scary, and fascinating to me. Maybe we should all be a little less judgemental and a little easier on ourselves.

 
That is what I have pretty much observed through experience. The people who have known me since I was a teenager, aren't the ones who criticize me for being thin, probably because they knew I was once fat. It is mostly the people who have only known me as a thin person. I guess why it bothers me is only because the people who criticize me also complain about their own weight and how fat they are and do nothing about it. And then in the same breath insult me for being thin. I do know it is their problem, and I should just ignore it.

I have a friend who is desperately trying to lose weight and it a real struggle for him. He has never had to watch his weight since he was a teenager, he woke up one day and realized that he was 50lbs overweight, it took him 20 years to put on all that weight. He sent me an interesting podcast about a guy who has done extensive research and said the only way to lose weight is to cut calories, and eat a bit less than your BMR. Exercising does help, but you can't do it through exercise alone.

I would be more inclined to believe the genetic factor argument, but I know many fat people who were born from thin people and many thin people who were born from fat people. It seems more to do with eating habits, exercise habits and environmental factors than genetics. All the thin people I know, who have remained thin into their 40s, watch what they eat. Like yarnyoda says, the difference is that they have 1 desert at holiday time, not desert every day on a daily basis etc. She described the concept very well. I concur, there was a time when I would eat 2-3 bags of chips in one week, now a bag of chips sits in our house for 2-3 weeks before we need to buy another. Also, there are days when I burn up to 3000 calories (as an estimate) and there is no way that I can eat 3000 calories in one day. Any fat my body has stored from eating desert at holiday time would be used up during this time. That is why I appear to be able to eat what I want and not gain weight.

Whether or not you believe science, it is still science. The science card trumps the opinion card.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

This gave me a good chuckle, thanks TC!!

I digress....I only wish people with political power thought the same way; science trumps opinion.

That is the paradox. There has been no scientific proof. Just claims based on highly questionable research. Having said that though, anyone is free to blame genetics if they want. That is the great thing about it, there is always a way to avoid "self-blame" in our culture. It is a great way to get yourself "off the hook" for taking responsibility. I don't have any problem with people who are overweight, and even people who are constantly complaining about it. I just don't like it when they insult other people for being skinny that is all. And as you can see from the responses, there are a lot of people that feel the same way.

There's a genetic component to eye color, hair color, skin, whether or not you can curl your tongue and wiggle your ears, height... yes, it seems highly likely that genetics would have nothing to do with body shape and weight.


Or maybe that's just a theory. Like, say, the theory of gravity.

I can't change your beliefs so I'm done discussing this.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Unless you are an medical research authority on genetic factors in weight gain and weight loss, you are reaching a little far here. Questionable research? Yes, the research still has questions to answer, because a scientific study that has HUMANS as subjects is difficult to conduct as completely objective. Typically the researchers acknowledge this. They aim for completely controlled settings while conducting research, but it's difficult and expensive. Did you read the article I posted? It describes some of these experiments, which are very involved, cover long time periods (many years) and are controlled for a number of 'questionable' factors.

But it's pretty insulting to those thousands of researchers to dismiss their work because it doesn't fit with your personal (i'm guessing nonacademic?- do you work in a lab? do you have a degree in human physiology?) ideas and observations of how the weight gain/loss physiology works. This is akin to somebody claiming that global climate change is a hoax because it's been unseasonably cold in New York for one month of the year. This isn't a study, this is a minute observation by one person in one place in one small bit of time.

But it sounds like your issues with weight loss/gain are deeper, more personal, and involve some serious hurt from your past. This makes you highly unfit to comment on the science and research by the way. In actually conducting research, your opinion about the outcome doesn't matter. The numbers are the numbers and that is that.

However, it makes me feel like arguing with you about the scientific process it is not the point- I see you need some reassurance from others that you are indeed the victim, and better than the lazy fat people.

So I'll agree a little here- it totally sucks to have people comment on your body/eating habits, etc. And it's unfair to you that your family assumes you are anorexic. But like I said before, the things they say are about them, not you. So either talk back and make it clear you're not putting up with their shit, or gracefully duck out of the conversation. And yes, not ALL overweight people are genetically screwed and have to work much harder to lose the weight (like some of those studies DO show-sorry can't help it). Some overweight people treat their bodies like utter shit, eating fast food every day, never working out, and escalating their health problems. And yes, YOU are better than them in the health department, for losing weight and keeping if off, and maintaining a healthy lifestyle. However, try having some compassion for the overweight people by looking at other aspects of their lives- what do they do for a living? Are they kind? Thoughtful? Good with children? Generous?

I used to think this woman I worked with was a total loser. She's about twenty pounds overweight, was tired and cranky all the time, and always was coming in late and leaving early. Lazy. Then I actually got to know her and learned she had thyroid disease and had hers removed. She lives on pills to regulate her body, and if the balance isn't perfect she is achy and tired and miserable. We go on walks together and she taught me how to knit. She's my friend. And I judged her completely wrong because I didn't have the whole story (and I was being a total bitch).

Also, please don't hate on science. Thanks!

Well I don't really have to defend my level of education or knowledge of science to someone on the internet. The point that I am trying to make, is probably best summarized this way:

I have a friend who is desperately trying to lose weight. He is really depressed because he can't stand the way he looks and he doesn't know how he got so "fat." He says he is 50lbs overweight. Yes it is true, that I could say to him; "sorry you are overweight, but there is really nothing you can do about it. Being fat is genetic, you will just have to live with it. There is a lot of research out there to prove this. I am thin, because I was born to be thin and you are fat because you were born to be fat."

I would rather say this instead: "you can lose the weight, and I will help you try by telling you all I know about weight loss. I was once fat and I managed to do it and you can to."

Now you tell me again why I should change my beliefs.

You are right you don't need to defend your scientific comprehension, albeit it appears you did not read the article I posted. It did not say that fat people are destined to be fat. It said metabolic rate can be significantly reduced once a person is overweight for some period of time, and it's likely that genetics plays a role in this.

However, I hope we can all agree with some hard work and supportive friends like you, your friend can certainly lose weight and be healthier. So good luck to him!

I thought that you did a really good job of summarizing the article when you posted it, that is why I didn't read it. I was going to read it later when I had a bit more time. I do agree, based on my experience that once you are overweight, or have been overweight it is much easier to put it on.

I don't want my friend to go to other extremes, like liposuction and spending money that he doesn't have on expensive supplements, that is one of the reasons I don't want him to believe in the "genetic argument." He has been looking into that, because he thinks having a low metabolism runs in his family. I want him to try good old fashioned diet and exercise first. And I want to be supportive, because I know it works and it doesn't cost anything.


I am going to go back and read the article you posted, thanks.

Chances are, if you belong to this forum, you are likely some sort of an endurance athlete. I've noticed that most people that comment that I have lost weight are in serious need of a gym session or such. Brush it off, people at work tell me Chrissie Wellington looks ill, but she can win Ironmans like no big deal. Lets face it if you are doing hours of cardio each week and watching what you're eating you're likely to be thin yet doing just fine.

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