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Re: stress fracture at the medial tibial condyle wiht suurounding bone marrow edema [badbri] [ In reply to ]
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It sounds to me like you're fighting the healing process. Chill out and let it heal. Replace running with swimming/cycling/stairmaster/rowing/etc, something low impact.

I'm also recovering from a stress fracture and you'll recover quickly if you stop chasing races. I was doing exactly that until last week. Accept that your year of competitive running is done and work on one of your weaknesses. If you're a triathlete then pick up one of the other sports. If you're a pure runner then try doing something like long easy bike rides to help build your aerobic engine and something like stairmaster to maintain some strength in the muscles. That's just one example, but find a good sports PT and they'll be able to help you come up with something that works for you.
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Re: stress fracture at the medial tibial condyle wiht suurounding bone marrow edema [dado0583] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the feedback guys!

I have been doing a significant (for me) amount of cycling during these last 6months and as a result I'm wondering if that's not helping this injury. It doesn't make sense that a non-impact activity like that would be harmful, but of course I'm no expert.
Last edited by: badbri: Aug 25, 15 13:56
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Re: stress fracture at the medial tibial condyle wiht suurounding bone marrow edema [badbri] [ In reply to ]
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I received the MRI report from the scan lab. Below are the relevant findings:

1 - Minimal inflamamation of the suprapatellar fat pad is present.
2 - The patellofemoral cartilage demonstrates trace surface fibrillation.
3 - Osteoedema is localized to the posterolateral aspect of the lateral femoral condyle. Subtle...signal alteration...may represent a small fracture or osseous contusion (my note: prev MRI showed 1cm fracture here).
4 - The weightbearing articular cartilage demonstrates minimal thinning but otherwise no significant abnormality.
5 - Flexor mechanisms are overall intact with the semimembranosous possibly being mildly tendinopathic.

Obviously I've googled the heck out of most of these terms just so I can understand what they basically mean. But is there anything in the above that might indicate a problem when I cycle? I have cut out the cycling because it seems to make things worse for me. Similarly for pool running. What those 2 activities have in common is the repetitive circular motion of the knee. My ortho suggested cycling as alternative but my experience seems to indicate otherwise.
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Re: stress fracture at the medial tibial condyle wiht suurounding bone marrow edema [badbri] [ In reply to ]
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badbri wrote:
I received the MRI report from the scan lab. Below are the relevant findings:

1 - Minimal inflamamation of the suprapatellar fat pad is present.
2 - The patellofemoral cartilage demonstrates trace surface fibrillation.
3 - Osteoedema is localized to the posterolateral aspect of the lateral femoral condyle. Subtle...signal alteration...may represent a small fracture or osseous contusion (my note: prev MRI showed 1cm fracture here).
4 - The weightbearing articular cartilage demonstrates minimal thinning but otherwise no significant abnormality.
5 - Flexor mechanisms are overall intact with the semimembranosous possibly being mildly tendinopathic.

Obviously I've googled the heck out of most of these terms just so I can understand what they basically mean. But is there anything in the above that might indicate a problem when I cycle? I have cut out the cycling because it seems to make things worse for me. Similarly for pool running. What those 2 activities have in common is the repetitive circular motion of the knee. My ortho suggested cycling as alternative but my experience seems to indicate otherwise.

Hi badbri, so sorry about your stress fracture. I'm on week 10 of recovery of a femoral neck stress fracture and still walking around with one crutch and doing a little walking in the house but there is still soreness. I saw my Ortho specialist last Friday and learned some new things about stress fractures:

- traumatic fractures are quicker to heal than many types of stress fractures. Many people including myself are not aware of this. Mine is small and it's inside the bone but it's taking a while b/c blood supply is not good in that area of the hip.

-many types of stress fractures take A LOT longer to heal than you expect.

- I was told I can only do activities that don't make it sore or hurt while doing it. So I can swim, aqua jog and do some easy biking.

-My doctor also told me to cut back on the cycling because too much can actually slow down the healing process. So I'll be back down to one hour rides from 1.5 hours. He also didn't want me getting out of my saddle as that would mean the terrain is too challenging for my situation at the moment.

So unfortunately with some stress fractures, you just have to be patient and let things heal. Less is more in this case as I've learned. Easier said than done! Believe me I know. It's hard being injured like this!

Sending healing thoughts your way! Hey, this is my second hip/bone injury and as a result my swim improved so much last winter and I have a feeling it will get even better this winter. The great thing with triathlon training is that you can always work on your other sports when injured from running.

Best wishes!

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.
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Re: stress fracture at the medial tibial condyle wiht suurounding bone marrow edema [Herding Cats] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Herding - Thanks so much for your reply! Sorry to hear of your injury as well and returning the healing thoughts in your direction too.

I've taken almost 2 weeks off from running at this point and have spent those 2 weeks doing some detective work on what is okay to do and what aggravates the soreness.

- Mtn Biking - bad
- Casual Bike (which I use to pull my daughter around the neighborhood) - very bad
- Road bike - Surprisingly, okay.
- Pool Running - previously determined this as bad, but I need to revisit
- Incline Treadmill Walking - Okay
- Arc Trainer (similar to an Elliptical) - Okay

So clearly I have a few alternatives that I can keep in my "quiver" as Cross Training activities. I think I need check the fit of my Mtn Bike and my Casual Bike and try to get those close to where my Road Bike is. Seat height is probably the culprit there.

The other good news is that the general soreness is now localized to almost exclusively the upper knee, well away from where the fracture is, and closer to ITBS problem areas.
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Re: stress fracture at the medial tibial condyle wiht suurounding bone marrow edema [badbri] [ In reply to ]
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badbri wrote:
Hi Herding - Thanks so much for your reply! Sorry to hear of your injury as well and returning the healing thoughts in your direction too.

I've taken almost 2 weeks off from running at this point and have spent those 2 weeks doing some detective work on what is okay to do and what aggravates the soreness.

- Mtn Biking - bad
- Casual Bike (which I use to pull my daughter around the neighborhood) - very bad
- Road bike - Surprisingly, okay.
- Pool Running - previously determined this as bad, but I need to revisit
- Incline Treadmill Walking - Okay
- Arc Trainer (similar to an Elliptical) - Okay

So clearly I have a few alternatives that I can keep in my "quiver" as Cross Training activities. I think I need check the fit of my Mtn Bike and my Casual Bike and try to get those close to where my Road Bike is. Seat height is probably the culprit there.

The other good news is that the general soreness is now localized to almost exclusively the upper knee, well away from where the fracture is, and closer to ITBS problem areas.

Hi there, it's tricky to figure out what aggravates the soreness and what doesn't. I have to be careful too with what I do. Today at PT I leaned that the muscles around my stress fracture are VERY VERY tight. She helped loosen them up this morning which helped. Also in our master swim this morning we worked on the breast stroke which I have't done in months. The whip kick actually helped open up my hips some and after my swim it felt a little better. The good thing with you is that your soreness is away from the fracture meaning you might have tight muscles too which is normal. And those can be stretched a little.

Do you have access to an Anti-gravity (Alter G) treadmill? I walked for 20 minutes at 40% of my body weight on the Alter G this morning. When things improve, I'll start to jog at 20% of my body weight. I've used the Alter G to rehab past injuries and get back to running quicker. It works great since you are getting blood supply to the injured area without the full impact.

You mention pool running. What about deep water running? Do you have a deep enough pool? Our lap pool doesn't have a deep end so I deep water run in a reservoir after an open water swim. With a shallow pool, my PT gave me some walking drills to do in the water.

I LOVE my mtn bike but won't be on the trails until I'm all better and can run. I have a second MRI scheduled 9/29 and if I'm all healed, that will give me a license to do more types of activities.

Keep at it and you'll be back at the running soon. Just be careful and "hurry slowly" :-)

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.
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Re: stress fracture at the medial tibial condyle wiht suurounding bone marrow edema [Herding Cats] [ In reply to ]
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I'm coming out of the tail-end of a stress fracture. Altra-G has been amazing, very controlled.

At the point I was jogging at 65% of body weight I started pool running. In the shallow end the water went to my lower chest, and in the deep end it went to my neck. It was a mistake for me as it was less controlled and sometimes after doing it I was very sore. If you have a float and can do water running without actually touching the ground that's probably going to be much more controlled. The downside to Altra-G is that when you get back onto normal running you feel VERY fat. I did 2 x 4m30s on the treadmill on Tuesday and I felt extremely heavy (my weight is 135lbs but felt like I had put on 30lbs)

I also found that cycling I was able to get back into as long as I kept it to spinning. If I was able to stick to 95+ rpm I was generally okay but as soon as I hit hills where I would normally get out of the saddle it started to aggravate the recovery somewhat.
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Re: stress fracture at the medial tibial condyle wiht suurounding bone marrow edema [dado0583] [ In reply to ]
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Hi guys - Thanks again for the replies. By "pool running" I mean "deep water running." My neighborhood pool goes just over 5.5' which is just barely enough for me to not touch the bottom when wearing double water belts. Let me tell you though, of all the cross training I've done, pool running absolutely takes the cake for boredom and hassle. I would rather do almost anything else to avoid it, but the problem is it's about the best thing you can do to simulate running.

I haven't tried an Alter-G treadmill, but I just checked and sure enough there are a few in my area available for rent through PT Services. Prices seem to be around $25 per 30min session (or $50 for 3) which frankly is too steep for me to consider when there are other options.
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Re: medial femoral condyle fracture [Deak] [ In reply to ]
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I know I am late to this party but I have a couple questions. My MRI shows stress fractures to the medial tibial plateau and the medial femoral condyle. This includes a radial medial meniscus tear through 50% of the overall fibers that involves the posterior root and a focal full-thickness hyaline cartilage lose with mild underlying subchondral marrow edema. All ligaments are intact and lateral meniscus is fine. The original pain started in October and regular x-rays showed mild arthritis so I have been treated with NSAIDS and two joint injections. Finally got a MRI after worsening pain in early April 2016. Current treatment is non-weight bearing for 3 weeks and reevaluate. My search on the injury shows this is an unusual fracture pattern with few case studies in the literature. What does my future look like? Surgery? The orthopedic doctor doesn't even have me in a brace. I go back on Monday 4-25-16 so any advice is welcome! Thanks!
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Re: medial femoral condyle fracture [SHock] [ In reply to ]
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i sustained such an injury on my right knee and appreciated the thread on such injury. I have been unable to run yet it is hard not to place pressure on that side of the knee. One has to walk and first I thought it was just sprain of my MCL but got MRI few weeks ago and got the bad news. Cycling on road bike today felt no pain and nice to do some type of cardio finally after 4 weeks. I tried Salsa dancing and felt the pain the next day and bought some crutches trying to use them at home. I have to go see an Ortho to get a special offloading knee brace. Thanks guys and girls on this Thread. I have to run a marathon in 5 months want to come back. I am a Podiatrist and just saw the MRI of my right knee and saw the subchondral fracture on my medial femoral condyle.
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Re: stress fracture at the medial tibial condyle wiht suurounding bone marrow edema [dado0583] [ In reply to ]
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Hi. Your diagnosis and similar to mine. I was a runner, twisted my knee felt a sharp pain. Was misdiagnosed with plica irritation. Three months later MRI revealed stress fractures/osteonecrosis in the tibia plateau and the medial femoral condolences of my right knee. I limited my weight bearing and used crutches partially. Repeat MRI Today said still osteonecrosis in the medial condyle. One doctor said I need knee replacement in the future. The other doctor said to do whatever I want , try running just not through pain. This is horrible. I am a 56-year-old physical therapist and I feel like I am 100 years old. I don't have much pain in my knee anymore, it just feels not as strong as the other knee. Good luck to you. I am a 56-year-old physical therapist and I feel like I am 100 years old. I don't have much pain in my knee anymore, it just feels not as strong as the other knee. Good luck to you. BethPt
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Re: stress fracture at the medial tibial condyle wiht suurounding bone marrow edema [Lbdpt] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Beth, Im Ernie, thanks for your experience. My injury April 24 and have not run yet. I actually tried a DonJoy brace and it was feeling worse did for one week now just walking on it. Its funny when i sit down like now sometimes hurts. I am biking on road bike other runner stated it worked but felt worse last time I go off the bike. I bought crutches but not using only at home. Let you know how it goes.
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Re: stress fracture at the medial tibial condyle wiht suurounding bone marrow edema [Lbdpt] [ In reply to ]
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You are never the same Beth. One knee or side will always be stronger than other but it heals just takes time. Are you a PT working near NYC area or where or part of the country. Dr. Hernan
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Re: stress fracture at the medial tibial condyle wiht suurounding bone marrow edema [hmelga] [ In reply to ]
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Hi. I am a PT in central NJ, very close to NYC. I am primarily a pediatric pt but do Ortho as a side job. The knee is slowly getting better, I can speed walk 3 miles without pain, some times I feel a mild discomfort medially, but the knee just doesn't feel right. I have never encountered SONK as aPT, nor have my Ortho colleagues, but I think many of my osteoporosis and total knee patients started like this. I just read an article in Runners World which quoted research from an Arthritis journal stating runners actually have less knee issues than non runners, which gave me hope! I hope to resume running in a few months, using the Galloway walk run method. How are you doing?
Beth
Last edited by: Lbdpt: Jul 1, 16 10:38
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Re: stress fracture at the medial tibial condyle wiht suurounding bone marrow edema [Lbdpt] [ In reply to ]
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Hi guys - I stopped monitoring the thread after there was no response to my September post there for quite awhile. Sorry I missed the discussion.

Figured I'd post a followup to my situation above.

I kept trying to make "come backs" until I finally gave in and took a solid 8 weeks off (with no other impact-related cardio), returning in late November after I got one final MRI to show the fracture was healed (it was). I slowly ramped up the running...using all the conservative techniques like breaking the runs up with two short runs in a day instead of 1 longer one...until late January when I again conservatively entered into a marathon training plan. This culminated in running the Poconos marathon in mid-May and punching my ticket to Boston for the first (certrain) time. I say "certain" because I got a technical BQ before, but it wasn't by enough time margin to actually get in. This time I was over 5 minutes ahead of my BQ time so I'm pretty sure I'm in.

Anyway, just posted all that to say listen to the folks that advised me to "stop chasing races" and let your body heal. You can come back just as good as new, or at least as good as you would've been at that age anyway!

Good luck to those above suffering through injuries and rehabilitation...I really know how tough it is!
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Re: medial femoral condyle fracture [Tlcnurse72] [ In reply to ]
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Hi - According to my MRI, I have a posterior medial meniscus radial root tear and a stress fracture of the femoral condyle on my left side. It sounds similar to your knee injury back in 2016. Could you please share as to your course of treatment? Did you have a surgery to repair the meniscus root tear? Were you able to get back all your physical activities including running? How long did take to recover. Thank you! Anh
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Re: medial femoral condyle fracture [Toanh] [ In reply to ]
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Hi,
I am so sorry you're going through this. I did not have surgery. I used an off loading brace for about five months.The brace was recommended by the doctor at the hospital for special surgery where i went for a second opinion.. Unlike the New Jersey orthopedist, he did not say stay off your leg and never do anything again. I did stay off my leg is much as I could,and used The brace religiously. I slowly resumed activities starting with walking and then some speedwalking elliptical and then started running. It is about a year and a half since I was diagnosed, almost 2 years since original injury .my knee is 95% better . I was misdiagnosed for three months with a plica irritation. I have a torn meniscus, chondromalacia patella and osteonecrosis of medial femoral condyle.meniscus is really asymptomatic, I don't have any buckling unlocking. I am also a physical therapist and was able to work. Good luck! Beth
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