This is a religious country and the weakness in faith requires government approval. If the government took away those things you listed many people would stop going to church and half of all married heterosexual men would become gay and hump each other in the street.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

If only...

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Josef
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We don't swear on oath to God in court, at least not in any court I have been in lately. That went out a long time ago.

I have no problem removing God at such time as you can muster legislative majorities to make it happen. This is still a democracy. Majorities have a lot of rights, subject to the limits provided in the Constitution.

As with every loser in the democratic system, secularists try to get their way in the Courts by twisting the clear meaning of the Constitution in the hopes of convincing five men in black pajamas.

Get your agenda enacted by doing the hard work of changing hearts and minds through persuasive arguments. That is the democratic way.

Constitution states that the government shall not establish religion. By saying we all put our faith in a god the government is saying that the state has a religious belief. This is not a matter of minority or majority. This is the constitution and that trumps all.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

"Constitution states that the government shall not establish religion"

Well the Constitution actually syas Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. It's close, but not quite the same in a legal sense. I pretty much agree that "In God we Trust" should be taken off money, but it will only get that way if enough people want it that way. It's all well and good to say "this is the constitution and that trumps all", but if nobody cares enough to push it through, nothing will change. This is a democracy, and there isn't a large enough portion of the voters that care about this issue to change it.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

"Why should we have "In God We Trust" on money? Many people in the US don't trust in God. Why do we swear an oath to God in court? "

Because the US is partially a land of religious fanaticism where religious belief defies rational thinking. IMO, that's probably the scariest single thing about the US. Or I'll say that the myopic way of thinking of the religious right sure scares me.

I've always been a believer that religion belongs in church or other religious institutions and not in government or any other public institutions. Especially in a society that is becoming more and more multi-cultural.

To say that the US is a "Christian" country doesn't take into account people who are not religious or people from other faiths. Of course the religious right choses not to see it that way.

"To say that the US is a "Christian" country doesn't take into account people who are not religious or people from other faiths. Of course the religious right choses not to see it that way. "

Hey we agree on something other than Cervelo!

But I must state that religion is no the scariest thing in the US.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

"Hey we agree on something other than Cervelo! "

Actually I'm absolutely sure we agree on a lot more than you realize. The only thing that upsets you is when I get on my anti Iraq war rants and compare the situation to Viet Nam.

But don't forget, I'm just a product of my time.

You are a product of sugar plums and peppermints.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

The president just swore an oath to god in his swearing in ceremony.............

What God that is its up to each and everone of us to decide, but at least we have a GOD to pray to, in my case its a Cervelo, ha just joking, shit ive got to go to church on sunday instead of the group ride to repent, daaaaaaaammmmmnnnnnnn.

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I have horrible back problems but I have zero problems staying in an aero position for 180k. Why? Because I ride steep and because I train regularly in that position. Simple as that.....Gerard

"The president just swore an oath to god in his swearing in ceremony"

No he didn't. He swore to execute his duties and to protect and defend the Constitution.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I could be wrong, but I think the last part of his oath was " so help me God".

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I have horrible back problems but I have zero problems staying in an aero position for 180k. Why? Because I ride steep and because I train regularly in that position. Simple as that.....Gerard

I don't see any problem with a public officail swearing to God. Who he swears to is his own choice.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

"I could be wrong, but I think the last part of his oath was " so help me God"."

The oath of office for the President is specified in the Constitution.

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.

No mention of God. No requirement to mention God or to swear the oath on a Bible or anything. He just raises his right hand and repeats the oath as the Chief Justice reads it.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Not directed at slowguy, I just clicked on the last post.


This thread has me wondering what those folks who feel God should be removed from government feel about the congress and Senate beginning each session with a prayer. I know not all politicians are Christian and bet there are even some atheists among them. What I have never heard is any of the non Christians ever make a stink or raise it as an issue. If it is so harmful to the psyche of non God believers how come they (the politicians) never complain or propose some legislation to ban in their workplace? I guess my concern is our country was in fact founded on Christian principles. Some of those principles are the guiding tenants of how we as a society conduct ourselves morally and ethically. We are becoming more of a multi-cultural society all the time but I don't think that is reason enough to change our history, heritage or culture. I read that over 80% of people in the US believe in God. That doesn't mean they are Christian just that they have a faith in a higher power. Why should we allow a minority of people to make a decision that so few people want. Someone else said if you want to take God out of government then write your congressman and lets put it to a vote. I would be all for it to settle it once and for all. No way it would ever pass because it means too much to too many people. We in the US are so very unique and different than any other country in the world. Yes there are many great countries but nowhere do people have the opportunities we have here. As Don King says "this is the greatest Nation in the world."

he weakness in faith requires government approval

You love to take potshots at believers because they're weak, Tibbs, but I've never heard a believer assert otherwise. We're all weak. Believe it.

Why are some atheists so weak that they can be psychologically damaged by the fact that the president is sworn into office with his hand on the Bible?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

"Why are some atheists so weak that they can be psychologically damaged by the fact that the president is sworn into office with his hand on the Bible?"

I don't think they're atheist. The truly angry "atheist" I run into have this horrible past with churches. When asked why they don't believe they always go back to what happened way back when. The unangry atheist doesn’t believe because it has not been proven.

So why hang on to and hate something you don't believe in? Because you really do believe deep down and it pisses you off.

I had and still have fantastic memories and experiences in churches and as long as the state doesn't make choices I think the politicos can put their faith and make their decisions with Gods grace all day.

"You love to take potshots at believers because they're weak"

No I love to take pot shots at those who think that the government ok stamp is sooo important that if the government doesn't say it's ok then it will disappear. Not just believers but everyone.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

I though "so help me God" was still part of hte oaths sworn in court... I think it may be the case still in some states. But regardless...

If the courts can forbid school prayer, why could they not forbid oaths to God, etc... in other government-related areas?

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I can't say about other states, but not in Florida. I have had way too much experience there.

I think the Bible and swearing to God is part of history and Perry Mason.

I think "so help me God" is part of some oaths (like being sworn in in court unless you ask for a non-denominational oath), but i don't think it's part of any federal ones. As far as states go, I think it's at their discretion.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I think Washington started it and every president has followed the protocal to this day.

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I have horrible back problems but I have zero problems staying in an aero position for 180k. Why? Because I ride steep and because I train regularly in that position. Simple as that.....Gerard