i don't know the answer to your question. but here is a thought: at your next race take a long look around at the closed roads, the volunteers coordinated into place, the water issues, the secured venue, the USAT sanction, aide stations, emergency services, pre event expo and post race food, timing services, etc etc. now, imagine the existing RD walking up to you and handing over the reins for next year's event to you, standing there in your running shoes - he/she is out, and you are in. yeah, you are busy - so was he/she. better start today ! how much would you charge for your time/effort/logistics/supplies/etc etc ??

Hi, I organized a race a few years ago. It was no WTC event, but it was well received and still exists - which is all I could hope for.

My money went to sanction (very small amount), t-shirts or other freebies (good sized amount), food (good sized amount), donations to service clubs that helped us (ambulance, radio club, boat club), and all the little things you never think about (posters, entry forms, mailings, photocopies, signage, paper, markers, stakes to mount the signage onto, gas, orange vest rentals, cell phone costs, long distance costs to answer questions about the race). Because it was a small race, most of this was out-of-pocket before we received entries. Since I was just out of school this made me more than a little bit nervous.

It was a small race with a lot of town support. We charged $20 or $25 a head and basically subsidized a kids of steel race with the 'big' tri. I was out of pocket in the first year, and in the second year gave any surplus to the local swim team that donated a lot of volunteers. (I understand they do fairly well by the race these days...) My total compensation was a Wendy's Meal Deal for myself and my co-race director, and the satisfaction of putting on the event. Oh, and going back and winning the thing three years later!

My slant on Race Directors and promoters is that they are selling an entertainment product. The better the product, the more they should make. For a nice quality local triathlon I feel $45-55 dollars is reasonable since they are providing basically 4-5 hours total entertainment. Viewed that way the cost is about double the cost of a movie ticket (dollars for minutes of entertainment). For a more "exotic" destination race with a few unique features such as Alcatraz or St. Croix I expect to pay substantially more. Race Directors need to be able to make a good living or there is no reason for them to produce quality events. I'm willing to pay for that quality if its there.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

To add to Marlin's list: swim bouys and bike racks (either rent or initially buy); permits (for example, Escape from Alcatraz has to deal with the City of SF, the County of SF, the National Park Service, whatever agency covers the bay; all have separate permits/requirements); race specific items: rental of the boats for Alcatraz, rental of the buses for Vineman/Wildflower; police overtime; awards; advertising; website costs, all your semi-permanent signage. There is more, but I can't remember off the top of my head. The race rollout manual for Alcatraz is about an inch thick and very detailed.

When people start complaining about race organization, I tell them--go and actually volunteer at a race and see first hand what it takes to put one on. You'd be amazed.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

(Sorry, I was in a bad mood when I wrote this earlier...)

I had another thought, and it's more from the consumer side of the equation.

You as a consumer are paying to do a race. The race is a product or entertainment event. The main thing you get is the experience. You get to talk to your training buddies about the race, critique it or recommend it. You get to tell the couch surfers at your office that you did a triathlon, and if you did a WTC event you can tell them you did an Ironman. Tell me you don't derive some joy from this this... You get to hold your head high knowing you did an event. Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt. In some cases it's a very expensive t-shirt.

This isn't a dig at your question, because I think it is a valid one in a very limited sense, but it's a frustrating one for anyone who puts on an event. You get people riding $4,000 litespeed bikes complaining about entry fees or asking what they get. Hello? When you go to the grocery store do you call Kellog's to ask why their Frosted Flakes cost $3.99? Rest assured that as long as the event takes place you are not being ripped off, and if you don't like the product vote with your feet.

As for responsibility, your entry fees do not include me making every single decision for you on race day. Responsibility for your decisions rests with you and those that raised you. I'll tell you what I think you need to do to get through this safely on a loudspeaker before the race, or in the race kit. The rest is up to you.

Great breakdown Puskas!

I volunteered to help with a local race for the first time last summer. I was one of the organizers and handled everything with the bike course. The whole thing was a huge eye-opener. There is so much that goes into these races that most of us never get involved with. The insurance costs and donations to the volunteer service organizations are two of the biggest things. And you need to try to turn at least a small profit every year so you can re-invest in the race and buy things to keep the race going -- buoys, cones, paint, tents, tarps, etc.

It probably goes without saying, but every triathlete should volunteer at least once for a race. You'll get a whole new appreciation for the events that you participate in.

The intent of my question is one of a general sense. My aim is not to slant a view towards athlete, nor race director. On a personal note...I've spent money on entry fees for events that I never started (I chose so because I questioned the safety/organization of the event). Some events I've returned to, others I learned my lesson and moved-on.

Here's a bit on background on my part (mainly involving triathlons)...I've only been doing tri's since '97, but have seen alot of changes take place (generally for the better). It's amazing when one just looks at the technology side of things (i.e. chip timing, equipment, etc...). Also, I've participated in Sprints to Ironman distance events...so I've seen several types of logistical puzzles that both race director and athlete, needed to contend with.

Prior to '97 I volunteered at several tri's and running events (it opened my eyes to a whole new lifestyle). I think I learned alot about how difficult it can be from a race director's side to hold an event (i.e. permitts, permitts an more permitts, and don't forget just being able organize a thousand "little things" into one enjoyable time for all...if it goes right you're a hero...if not...you're the world's punching bag). However as a participant, I can also understand an athlete's view too of event expectations (i.e. will there be at least some water to drink...I've seen events "run-out" even though it was clearly stated that it was provided and there was knowledge of how many participants were involved).

Without some common ground to agree upon (athlete vs. race director/promoter), I think the whole idea of sporting events would seem as a diversion of time and money for both parties. Perhaps I should rephrase and ask: "are there any common things that a Race Director/Promoter and athlete should expect of each other?" It would be interesting to see what both parties have to say.

Thanks

Puskas

Thanks for the breakdown!

It's amazing to see a how much time and money can be put into holding an event.

Hope everyone walked away, having an enjoyable time!