Thanks for posting this. I just hope people don't grab this isolated incident and make it a focal point for arguments while forgetting about all the good things Marines and soldiers are doing over there. Seems as if some people are chomping at the bit to skyline the negative aspects of what is going on over there while ignoring all the good.
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Re: "Phantom Fury": Day 7 In Fallujah ("Mop Up") [GJB]
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Re: "Phantom Fury": Day 7 In Fallujah ("Mop Up") [SemperTri]
[ In reply to ]
>>>If it turns out to be true it would be a shame.
For whom, exactly?
For the executed insurgent?
For the Guide to Small Wars?
For the Corps' self-image as somehow more professional/competent than the 3ID?
For the Devil Dogs who will certainly face court-martial for such an act?
<snicker>
Just kidding, I know that's not how "today's Corps" operates, shame is not really an option when you're at Al Anbar Bitch Camp and the flowers and sweets are few and far between.
>>>But I am certain that this is an isolated incident and not characteristic of the Marine Corps in general or any ROE's.
Why so certain, SemperTri?
Are we to believe you wouldn't tacitly support such an act because it might reflect badly on your chosen ScreenName?
Seems to me like we've got an awful lot of people over there who aren't so great with the rulebook...they keep driving over the IEDs when the ROEs clearly say to drive around.
I'm trusting you to stay current on this story, SemperTri and explain to the class who fucked up...at least until we find that VX shell and declare it all worth it.
For whom, exactly?
For the executed insurgent?
For the Guide to Small Wars?
For the Corps' self-image as somehow more professional/competent than the 3ID?
For the Devil Dogs who will certainly face court-martial for such an act?
<snicker>
Just kidding, I know that's not how "today's Corps" operates, shame is not really an option when you're at Al Anbar Bitch Camp and the flowers and sweets are few and far between.
>>>But I am certain that this is an isolated incident and not characteristic of the Marine Corps in general or any ROE's.
Why so certain, SemperTri?
Are we to believe you wouldn't tacitly support such an act because it might reflect badly on your chosen ScreenName?
Seems to me like we've got an awful lot of people over there who aren't so great with the rulebook...they keep driving over the IEDs when the ROEs clearly say to drive around.
I'm trusting you to stay current on this story, SemperTri and explain to the class who fucked up...at least until we find that VX shell and declare it all worth it.
Re: "Phantom Fury": Day 7 In Fallujah ("Mop Up") [tri_larry]
[ In reply to ]
Hmmm, lots to answer there. The shame would be all around there Larry. The insurgent, the Marine, whoever. And I never made any distinction between the Marines over there and the 3ID. Where did this come from?
Why so certain, SemperTri? Are we to believe you wouldn't tacitly support such an act because it might reflect badly on your chosen ScreenName?
Certain because I trust their training and their discipline. NOT always perfect as in this case but pretty damn reliable. If you were in the service or the Marine Corps you undoubtedly heard of the "10%". As far as whether or not I would support this behavior...hmm....I second what Tom Demerly posted. At the same time, I can't really say. I'd like to think with a high degree of confidence that I would make a better decision (from what we know about this situation) and therefore NOT support this. But I am not there and I can't judge this guy or say that I'd have done anything different. Regardless of my screenname I try to remain as objective of these type issues as I can. As far as the Corps self image, I think the reputation of the Marine Corps speaks for itself and needs not be argued.
But regardless, I have a high degree of faith and confidence in the skills and professional conduct of all the service members over there right now, especially Marines obviously. People can highlight this incident and Abu Ghraib all they want to but it won't change my opinion. I don't apply those occurences to the entire group of people over there.
Seems to me like we've got an awful lot of people over there who aren't so great with the rulebook...they keep driving over the IEDs when the ROEs clearly say to drive around.
I'm trusting you to stay current on this story, SemperTri and explain to the class who fucked up...at least until we find that VX shell and declare it all worth it.
I have never served in a combat environment such as this one. Have you (just curious, not challenging you)? Rule and combat....hmm.....there's a delicate balance there. I guess it boils down to doingthe best you can with what you've got and the current situation. I am sure many times those guys only have split seconds to make decisions and I go back to what Tom Demerly posted. As far as me staying current on this story, I'd like to try. I read up on thees things fairly regularly or at least as much as I can.
Call me stupid but it seems as if you are a little negative here. Why so? Why so quick to criticize the folks on the ground over there? Or at least appear to do so.
Why so certain, SemperTri? Are we to believe you wouldn't tacitly support such an act because it might reflect badly on your chosen ScreenName?
Certain because I trust their training and their discipline. NOT always perfect as in this case but pretty damn reliable. If you were in the service or the Marine Corps you undoubtedly heard of the "10%". As far as whether or not I would support this behavior...hmm....I second what Tom Demerly posted. At the same time, I can't really say. I'd like to think with a high degree of confidence that I would make a better decision (from what we know about this situation) and therefore NOT support this. But I am not there and I can't judge this guy or say that I'd have done anything different. Regardless of my screenname I try to remain as objective of these type issues as I can. As far as the Corps self image, I think the reputation of the Marine Corps speaks for itself and needs not be argued.
But regardless, I have a high degree of faith and confidence in the skills and professional conduct of all the service members over there right now, especially Marines obviously. People can highlight this incident and Abu Ghraib all they want to but it won't change my opinion. I don't apply those occurences to the entire group of people over there.
Seems to me like we've got an awful lot of people over there who aren't so great with the rulebook...they keep driving over the IEDs when the ROEs clearly say to drive around.
I'm trusting you to stay current on this story, SemperTri and explain to the class who fucked up...at least until we find that VX shell and declare it all worth it.
I have never served in a combat environment such as this one. Have you (just curious, not challenging you)? Rule and combat....hmm.....there's a delicate balance there. I guess it boils down to doingthe best you can with what you've got and the current situation. I am sure many times those guys only have split seconds to make decisions and I go back to what Tom Demerly posted. As far as me staying current on this story, I'd like to try. I read up on thees things fairly regularly or at least as much as I can.
Call me stupid but it seems as if you are a little negative here. Why so? Why so quick to criticize the folks on the ground over there? Or at least appear to do so.
Well, I just saw the CNN video clip of this incident and it doesn't look good. Still say it's too early to say exactly what happened but can only hope for the best in a very messed up situation.