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P3 vs. Ti-Phoon 650 wheel
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Let's hear your thoughts. I'm looking at these two bikes and can't figure out which one to get. I'll be doing a series of half-iron distance races and capping the season with IM Wisconsin in September. I want a bike I can use for everything. Currently have a 5200 with 700c wheels, but I'm 5'7'' and think that the smaller wheels will be beneficial.

I've heard that the smaller sizes in the Ti-Phoon do not have the rear wheel cutout like the larger sizes...is this true? My local dealer do not have a 51cm in stock for me to see - so I'm counting on you all!

Your thoughts and insight on comparing the bikes are appreciated.

Thanks.
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Re: P3 vs. Ti-Phoon 650 wheel [madisonbucky] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure why none of the dealers can answer this question as I would rather stay out of it, but it is my understanding that the 650c Tiphoon (and Caliente) do not have rearwheel cutouts, i.e. from the side they look more like Cervelo Duals than Cervelo P2Ks. I am not sure if they still have the Cervelo-style horizontal dropouts, I hope not since they don't make much sense if there is no cutout.

But to be certain, just call QR or one of their bigger dealers.


Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
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Re: P3 vs. Ti-Phoon 650 wheel [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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Gerard - You were just the person I was hoping to answer this question! Thanks for your reply.

Do you have any advice on the 650 vs 700 wheel debate? Since I'll be getting a smaller sized frame b/c I'm 5'7'' (going for the 51cm) I'm planning on going with the 650 b/c of the added aerodynamics/weight benefits that my research has brought to light...

I'm doing Ironman Wisconsin and a series of tris in Wisconsin this year - not huge climbing, but a considerable amount of my time will be spent out of the saddle grunting up hills...there is where I've read that the smaller wheels on my compact frame will benefit me, should I believe this?

Thanks again, looking forward to any additional insights you can provide me before I make the final purchase!
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Re: P3 vs. Ti-Phoon 650 wheel [madisonbucky] [ In reply to ]
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Given your height 650c may be a good idea. I don't think you will find much difference with regards to climbing ability or anything else for that matter, provided the 650c and 700c frames are both designed with the same characteristics in mind.


Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
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Re: P3 vs. Ti-Phoon 650 wheel [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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Gerard, are there any major differences between the 01 P2K and the 03? I am currently waiting for an 03 but the local dealer is not sure when he will have it and I have a cut off date imposed in May. As I race in August and I am coming off a road bike, I would ideally like to get dialed in and really get use to it prior to racing. I know, there appears to be a lot of time between May and August, but i have had some really bad experiences with the bike portion of IM races, call me paranoid! Thanks



__________________________________________________
Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??
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Re: P3 vs. Ti-Phoon 650 wheel [SimpleS] [ In reply to ]
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If your dealer is a real, authorized dealer and not some dude on Ebay, you should have your P2K in the next few weeks. All sizes are available, we're simply going through the order list in chronological order and in a week or two we should be current.


Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
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Re: P3 vs. Ti-Phoon 650 wheel [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, the dealer is authorisedl. He convinced me P2k was the right bike for me, after taking measurements and having some knowledge of my problems retro fitting a road bike. I feel obligated to purchase it from him as he spent a lot of time with me and pointed out some sizing issues. Thanks again.



__________________________________________________
Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??
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Re: P3 vs. Ti-Phoon 650 wheel [madisonbucky] [ In reply to ]
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Don't count out the 2003 Typhoon. I purchased this bike after riding a Kestrel 4000 for 15 years and found it to be a great ride. I too am 5'7"-5'8" and had 700c wheels. I hated to sell my wheels for the 650c size but after having done it I am very pleased with the result. It is very windy here and I have noticed that I am a bit faster in the crosswinds and for some reason a whole lot faster with the tailwind...and it certainly isn't my training wheels as I currently have some massive wheels where I used to have Mavic Kyseriums. I am sure the Cervello is a great bike; however, one thing I learned on this forum was to make sure of the fit. The 650c frame does not have the rear cut out but in chats with many aero gurus most of your aero is up front in the head tube and of course yourself. Believe it or not I doubt you can go wrong with either bike, but one thing the Typhoon has that is nice is that it is Titanium and will ride like the first day you bought it 10 years from now. I do not know if this is true with the Cervello but people told me my Kestrel carbon bike would not last and it lasted a very long time, so go figure. Another bike you may want to consider trying out if you have a long torso is the Kestrel KM40.

Greg
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Re: P3 vs. Ti-Phoon 650 wheel [Greg Hartman] [ In reply to ]
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Greg - thanks for the reply. So you are happy with the switch to smaller wheels? Do you have race wheels yet? What size did you take in the Ti-phoon? I'd be interested to read more of your story if you have time to write...and still seriously debating 650 vs 700 b/c I have a great road bike set up with 700 wheels now....

Thanks, look forward to hearing from you.
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Re: P3 vs. Ti-Phoon 650 wheel [madisonbucky] [ In reply to ]
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I personally don't think there is a difference. I think I can climb better but have no scientific data to back that up. The main reason for my switch is that I believe that 650c bikes are suited for myself and in general shorter riders because the fit is better. I can tell you that a 650 bike corners a whole lot better then a 700c. I can zip around corners at almost top speed. The biggest shortcoming of the 650c wheel size is availabilty. As long as you have the majority of riders of all sizes on 700c bikes then you will have a smaller selection to choose from in the 650c. I don't mind as I race with Zipp 909's and Hed 3 and train with rolphs(all available in 650c size). All are great wheels and can be used for race day. As far as rear wheel cut out is concerned, in looking around I doubt you will find a 650c bike with a rear wheel cut out. You would need a very short rear chain stain. I think the rear cut out is cool looking but doubt it has that much of an impact on drag or performance. IMHO there is a lot of discussion on this forum regarding drag and being aero, but you have been to the Ironman, and some of the folks who are wrapped around the axel about getting the lightest and most aero gear also have a ton of crap strapped on their bikes...from gels to dual rear water bottles with a front profile drink system, to bento bags...you name it, they have it. I am not saying that this is bad, but you must understand that John Cobbs aero test are in a perfect setting. John did a test stating that the straw from the profile drink system created more drag then a frame mounted bottle. I would like to see a test on how much drag all these different items produce. Regarding your problems on the bike stage of the Ironman. You may want to look at your nutrition and ensure you are taking in enough fuel to get you down the road. I also swear by salt caplets as you can not drink enough gatorade to replenish the lost sodium from you body during this race. Good luck.

Greg
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Re: P3 vs. Ti-Phoon 650 wheel [madisonbucky] [ In reply to ]
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The biggest difference you'll note between 650 and 700 (assuming you have only 700 now) is that your bank account will be lighter than if you stuck with 700 because you'll have to buy new 650 race wheels. Also, if you're a powertap user, you'll have to purchase a new wheel (and sensor kit if you maintain both 700 and 650 bikes like I do). Performancewise, I haven't found a difference between the two.
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