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Is Kobe a rapist or what?
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I thought we needed something in here besides politics.
Last edited by: TxDude: Jul 30, 04 13:49
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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That is like asking if Lance Dopes. No ome here is going to be able to give you the true answer.
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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How on earth would someone here know that?

The only two that know are Kobe Bryant and Kate Faber.
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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[snip]

you're bad. you're bad.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I'm assuming you're referring to me mentioning her name? I thought everyone knew it by now.

Shoot, her name and picture were printed on the cover of The Star. Anyone with a computer can find out her name, address, phone #, email addresses, and see several pics of her in about 20 seconds of searching.
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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My best guess is that he is not a rapist. The star struck girl went up to his hotel room to have sex with Kobe. She had something more along the lines of tender love making instead of being leaned over a chair and quickly used for sex from behind.

This is pretty crude behaviour by Kobe, and shows an utter disregard for others, but I don't see how it amounts to rape. More precisely, I don't see how the prosecution could meet the burden of proof necessary for a conviction.

But then I thought OJ would be convicted too. You just never know what a jury will do.
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [ajfranke] [ In reply to ]
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"My best guess is that he is not a rapist."
- - I think that's a good guess. Kobe can get laid in any city at any time, why steal what so many are giving away?

"But then I thought OJ would be convicted too. You just never know what a jury will do."
- - I understand how OJ walked, and the jury knew he was guilty. It's called racism, and in this day and age it's the black population that's far more racist than even Robert KKK Byrd's crowd. What I don't understand is how they convicted Tyson. I mean, what did they think the girl was doing knocking on the door of his hotel room at 2:00 a.m???


Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know what Kobe did or didn't do, and my guess is he won't be convicted, but I do know that any law enforcement professional that I've talked to has told me that rape isn't about getting laid. It's about exercising power over another individual.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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"It's about exercising power over another individual."

True, but was the young "lady" trying to exercise some power of her own? Sounds to me like she was. I say no harm, no foul.


Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
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Like I said, I don't know what happened in that hotel room anymore than anyone on this forum does. I wouldn't put it past an NBA player to commit rape, but I wouldn't put it past some young lady to cry rape in order to get paid down the line, or to grab some headlines or whatever. The only problem I have is with a culture that treats these guys as if it's no big deal to be on trial for rape (Kobe), murder (Ray Lewis) or any number of other offenses. If I was accused of rape, I'd be out of a job and probably sitting in a jail cell while my trial went on.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [ajfranke] [ In reply to ]
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You just never know what a jury will do.


Admittedly cynical question: If you were on trial for a crime you didn't commit, would you want to exercise your right to a jury trial these days?








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know if he's a rapist, but he's definitely a piece of shit.
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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<sarcasm> he can't be a rapist, he can play a professional sport and that alone makes him a good person and model citizen! </sarcasm>
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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At least with a jury you have a 1 in 6-12 chance of convincing SOMEBODY that you're not guilty, as opposed to a bench trial where there's only the judge, and if you don't convince him/her, you're dead.


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Steve Perkins
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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considering the news yesterday, I guess not.


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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know but could they give him community service in the form of un-fucking-up the US Olympic basketball team?
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
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Your reply is a little harsh, I resent it as a black person, I would also vote to convict if the prosecution proved its case beyond a reasonable doubt. If you go back and look objectively at the way the case was handled, the prosecution screwed it up and left room for reasonable doubt. If Marsha Clark and Chris Darden hadn't been doing the nasty during the trial instead of preparing for the trial, the outcome could have been different. If they had chosed to put on the DNA evidence in such a way that a 5 year old could understand it, the outcome could have been different. If they would have hammered on the fact the why would he run if he was not guilty, I think the outcome would have been different. Instead, everyone was jockeying for their 15 minutes of fame, forgetting that 2 people were brutally murdered.

As for Mike being convicted, being in the wrong place does justify someone taking my stuff. I don't think she should've been in the room either, but it doesn't make what he did right.

_______________________

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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [tricheermom] [ In reply to ]
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"Your reply is a little harsh"
- - No, it's how I feel. It's my opinion, and one that I hold with some conviction. Please read on, and maybe you'll come to a better understanding of what I mean.

"I resent it as a black person, I would also vote to convict if the prosecution proved its case beyond a reasonable doubt."
- - Then you're probably not a racist. I wasn't stipulating that all blacks are racists, but at least two on the OJ jury were.

"If you go back and look objectively at the way the case was handled, the prosecution screwed it up and left room for reasonable doubt. If Marsha Clark and Chris Darden hadn't been doing the nasty during the trial instead of preparing for the trial, the outcome could have been different."
- - Ooh, that's kinda harsh ;o)
If I were a lawyer, I could be offended. But yes, the prosecution was inept. So was the defense and the defendant. I still don't see how anyone had difficulty pegging OJ as guilty, just as Scott Peterson is guilty.

"If they had chosed to put on the DNA evidence in such a way that a 5 year old could understand it, the outcome could have been different."
- - Judge Ito should have (but probably didn't) understand it well enough to give proper instructions. I listened to the DNA evidence, which is why I say there's just no way to vote except guilty, unless you have an agenda.

"Instead, everyone was jockeying for their 15 minutes of fame, forgetting that 2 people were brutally murdered."
- - Absolutely agree

"As for Mike being convicted, being in the wrong place does justify someone taking my stuff. I don't think she should've been in the room either, but it doesn't make what he did right."
- - Maybe not, but as with Kobe, my inclination is to believe that she wanted something, went out of her way to get it, and then cried rape. If she were an undercover cop, they'd call that entrapment. To make a man go to prison for that is just plain wrong.

I listened to (black) jurors say they thought he (OJ) was probably guilty, yet somehow they felt compelled to acquit. I don't get that. Sure the prosecution was inept, but when you sit in a courtroom for that long and listen to the evidence and you know the man committed the crime...

I'm not a racist (I was shot at by police during a protest march for racial equality. I had two pieces of buckshot removed, and went back the next day to protest again and I was the only white member of the Black Students Union at UCSB in 1969) and I doubt that you are either. But racism exists, and pretending it doesn't exist is turning a blind eye to one of America's biggest challenges. Pretending that only white people are or can be racists is equally errant.

When Rodney King got beat up for resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer (and he was on PCP at the time, so they should have SHOT him for their own safety) the black community rioted. He deserved what he got (the ass whooping, not the $3.6 mil) and more. When a black youth nearly killed Reginald Denny, there was no outrage. Reginald Denny wasn't breaking any laws, he was just doing his job and had the misfortune to cross paths with a racist black mob.

If my friend takes a stand, I stand with him. But if he's wrong, I tell him so. If my friend is black, that doesn't change the equation. The fact that I feel that way and live that way makes me unusual in today's society, and that's a shame. It made me unique forty years ago, so maybe that means things are getting better.

My personal feeling is that race has been used as an excuse to treat people as if they were not human. When our nation was founded, blacks were considered chattel. We've left that behind us, in that people of color today are free to go anywhere and do anything that whites can do. Unfortunately, there are people off all races who find it difficult to trust races other than their own, and may even find it easy to hate them.

We cannot change the wrongs of the past, but we can put them in the past and refuse to repeat them. When a black juror votes to acquit a black defendant, one is left to wonder if his celebrity was the reason. One must also wonder if the race of his victims played a part in the verdict as well.

Whether you choose to admit it or not, there are blacks who think it's OK to commit crimes against white victims. Maybe they think that turnabout is fair play, but it isn't. At the same time, I'm prepared to stipulate that a percentage of the white population (and not just the skinheads) feel that blacks are genetically and intellectually inferior to whites. The irony of this is that the whites who hold this point of view are intellectually (and probably genetically) inferior to pond scum. The racists of all colors keep the fires of racial enmity burning. I won't help them by pretending it isn't happening.

I believe the women who accused Mike Tyson and Kobe Bryant are/were counting on white racism to help them get whatever it is/was that they were after. In years past, they would have gotten away with it, just as OJ got away with his crime. Things still aren't right, but they're different in that nowadays the jagged blade of racism is sharp on both edges. So blacks finally have a chance to get even and get over... except that the folks they're getting over on and getting even with are not the ones who perpetrated injustices on their ancestors.

I speak out against what I think is wrong, because I don't want things to just be different, I want them to be right. 36 years later, I still hold to the ideals for which Dr. King died. I will not disgrace his memory by allowing racism to go unchallenged.


Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
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I really appreciate your well reasoned response. If we could have open honest discussions on race in America, we'd all be better for it.

I don't know if I really believe that jury nullification exists, because most people I know, black or white, want criminals off the street. Where I think we differ in opinion, are the life experiences that each juror brings into the jury room. Most black people and I'm sure a few whites, know of someone who was railroaded by the system. My husband served on a jury where he voted to acquit only because of some of the experiences he had that none of the other white jurors had, which reflected on the credibility of the defendant. It was a case of armed robbery where the defendant had alleged that he was in the barber shop at the time of the incident. They called on the barber who could not recall whether the guy had been there or not. Well, in the jury room the rest of the jurors thought that because the barber could not remember, that meant the defendant was lying. Well in black barbershops, there are no appointments and unless you wait for your special barber, any one that is open will cut your hair. I don't know if it is the same in white salons.

I also know that California is about the strangest place for juries and celebrities. Think back on the 2 boys (names escape me now...the Menendez brothers) who murdered their parents. It was truly a slam dunk, but the first trial ended in a hung jury. Go figure.

I honestly think that Mike raped that girl, but he had a lousy defense. Playing into sterotypes, my penis is soooo big that's why she had all those bruises....I would have hit the consent isssue and hit it hard. I actually think it was engineered by Don King to get rid of Mike so he could pilfer away Mikes' money, but I digress. I also think that girl had a screw loose. Ok, they have video of Mike groping women at the pagent. She testifies that when he called her he told her not to wear any panties...WTF!! I wouldn't be too through cussing you out, if you were not my husband or significant other asking me something like that. But I think people are star struck and think I'll go with him. She did not know Mike Tyson from Adam, and if Adam had asked, she never would have gone.

I tell my 16 year old daughter, do not put yourself in unhealthy dangerous positions. You always have the right to say no, but try not to let it get to that point. It would be no different than someone walking down a street in a dangerous neighborhood with a Rolex and $100 bills hanging out. You will probably be robbed. Doesn't make it right or excuse the behavior of the robber, but don't put yourself in that position.

I know that racisim exist, I live it everyday. I also agree think we need to stop blaming "the man" for all of our ills. Some of them we bring on ourselves. We have done a disservice to the legacy of Dr. King and by the way, my parents and grandparents marched with King and was at the speech the night before he was assassinated.

We are probably more alike than we are different.

For once, a discussion on race that I have enjoyed.

_______________________

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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [tricheermom] [ In reply to ]
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"My husband served on a jury where he voted to acquit only because of some of the experiences he had that none of the other white jurors had"
- - Without knowing all of the specifics, it simply sounds like he refused to check his common sense at the door.

"I don't know if it is the same in white salons."
- - In a lot of them, it is. I go to the same place on a regular basis, because I found a woman who cuts my hair the way I like it. I keep going back to her and tipping her well, just in case I ever need an alibi ;o)

"I also know that California is about the strangest place for juries and celebrities. Think back on the 2 boys (names escape me now...the Menendez brothers) who murdered their parents. It was truly a slam dunk, but the first trial ended in a hung jury. Go figure."
- - It's like Martha, we have this problem locking up rich people. Part of it is the amount they can spend on lawyers, and part of it is just trying to picture these nice, young, well-dressed boys doing such a thing. We also have more than our share of crazies!

"I honestly think that Mike raped that girl, but he had a lousy defense."
- - I think what we have is a raging case of "reasonable doubt." I'm inclined to think she changed her mind at some point, but there's certainly enough gray area to say they prosecution couldn't achieve the burden of proof beyond a reaonable doubt. Difference between Mike and OJ is that OJ was always likeable. NOBODY likes Mike. Damned shame for a man to go to prison in this country just for being unpopular.

"She testifies that when he called her he told her not to wear any panties...WTF!! I wouldn't be too through cussing you out, if you were not my husband or significant other asking me something like that."
- - Exactly, and you wouldn't show up at my door at 2:00 a.m. after that request either, would you?

"I tell my 16 year old daughter, do not put yourself in unhealthy dangerous positions. You always have the right to say no, but try not to let it get to that point. It would be no different than someone walking down a street in a dangerous neighborhood with a Rolex and $100 bills hanging out. You will probably be robbed. Doesn't make it right or excuse the behavior of the robber, but don't put yourself in that position."
- - Amen, and people do just that, all the time.

"We are probably more alike than we are different."
- - I suspect so, except for the difference in our ages. I suspect your father and I might have marched together if he'd been in CA. We're probably about the same age. I'm 53, and suspect from your story that he's probably a few years older, but not much.

"For once, a discussion on race that I have enjoyed."
- - I've enjoyed many of them. One nice thing about CA is that many of us that were raised here don't have the same view of race as a dividing issue that I found when I lived in Baltimore, Chicago and Cincinnati. I was truly shocked when I moved to Baltimore in 1971. I befriended a black co-worker and took serious abuse for it. I thought I'd been transported to Selma, Alabama, circa 1950. However, I used the opportunity to press the issue. I made people try to explain to me why my friend Martin should be considered inferior to any of them. It was comical, because he was a bright, self-educated man with a brilliant mind and a fantastic sense of humor, and most of them were redneck dullards. They just took it for granted that everyone accepted black inferiority as a given. To them it was like trying to explain something to a Martian!

He and I became friends due to a common love for Jazz. He invited me to join him and his wife at a concert at the old Famous Ballroom. He did it as a joke, thinking there was no way I'd consent to be seen with him (little did he know that I was clueless that such mixing wasn't done in Baltimore in the '70s) and after I enthusiastically accepted the invitation (He was surprised that I knew who Clark Terry was!) he tried to explain to me that I might be the only white guy there. So I asked him if that would be a problem for him (IOW would he be ashamed to be seen with a honky?) He laughed hard at that, and we were good friends for years.

I miss that man. He taught me a lot. But like they say, the good die young.


Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [ajfranke] [ In reply to ]
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Does the word Gold digger sound right ,if he were a parking attendant or cook or manager ,, It would be a penthouse story from the girls view "wild colorado fun" ,,, but since he has more money than god, its rape.

Generally I cheer when ,a man rises above a stereotype , no cheers here.
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [tricheermom] [ In reply to ]
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Speaking of racial issues....

I recently heard some comments from Bill Cosby regarding the state of the young black men in this country. He harshly critisized the rap industry for making money from victimizing women, etc. He said that he's shocked that some blacks don't learn to speak english properly so how can they expect to succeed in life.

I thought those were pretty harsh comments and I found it interesting that some of the black community came down hard on him for saying those things.

I thought a lot of what he said was true....but I don't think many in the black community want to hear that from a prominent black person.

Comments?
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Re: Is Kobe a rapist or what? [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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I'm old enough to remember the segregated south. I think Bill was dead on. My parents and most of my relatives grew up very poor, but there was pride and poverty was a financial state for them andnot a state of mind. I'm not a big fan of Jesse Jackson but during the Democratic convention when Clinton was nominated he said one thing that stayed with me: "just because you were born in the slum, don't let the slum be born in you." I think rap could be more productive, in the old days some of it was politically thought provoking, now it's just trash and vulgar.

As Cousin Elwood and I agree, racisim exist, but it didn't stop me from getting degrees, nor did it stop my husband, mother, father, and a multitude of my other friends. The way was paved and bought for me with blood and I have an obligation to those who died to try to live Dr.King's dream. Our young people don't have a clue and are being left in the dust. It makes me very sad and slightly pessimistic for the future of black folks. I look at my own children and those of my friends, our sons who are early 20's are college drop outs. But those of my friends who have girls, the girls are in college and are high achievers. I wish I knew how to instill the pride and determination we had back in the day.

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The dream lives... [tricheermom] [ In reply to ]
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"The way was paved and bought for me with blood and I have an obligation to those who died to try to live Dr.King's dream."
- - That's big load to carry, mom. I think it behooves us all to feel obligated to those who have opened the doors for us to enter.

"Our young people don't have a clue and are being left in the dust. It makes me very sad and slightly pessimistic for the future of black folks."
- - White kids too. The whole generation would rather look for excuses than work to succeed. Everybody wants to be a star, and nobody wants to carry the water.

"I look at my own children and those of my friends, our sons who are early 20's are college drop outs. But those of my friends who have girls, the girls are in college and are high achievers. I wish I knew how to instill the pride and determination we had back in the day."
- - You and your friends are raising children to succeed. That's changing the world, one person at a time. Dr. King talked a lot, but the changes only came to those who took the action. Dr. King, by himself, changed nothing. He just made some of us realize that things could be different.

True change happens gradually. There are more minorities graduating from college than ever before. If everyone doesn't make it, that's not a failure of the sysem. In our day, a lot of doors were closed and we kicked them in. Today the doors are open. Only those who make the right choices will enter. You entered, because finding the door open was exciting to you. Those who were born after most of the barriers fell don't realize what they have. Sad, but a fact of the human condition.


Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
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