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Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism
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Hello All,

These articles might be of interest ...... since even for those that do not drink coffee ..... as we get caffeine from dark chocolate, gels, soft drinks, and other sources.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/...m_term=.025422be5e1e

Excerpt:

"WADA added caffeine to its Monitoring Program for 2017 so experts could study whether athletes are using the substance “with the intent of enhancing performance.”

WADA’s study will continue through September, at which point the agency will issue a three-month notice that the substance will be added to the Prohibited List the following year. To be added to the prohibited list, the substance must meet two or three criteria: 1) It has the potential to enhance performance; 2) It poses a health risk to athletes; and/or 3) It violates “the spirit of sport.”

Caffeine has been a prohibited substance before, but it was removed in 2003 to prevent athletes “who … drink cola or coffee from testing positive to banned substances,” Agence France-Presse reported at the time."


https://www.outsideonline.com/...faster-others-slower

Excerpts:

"But a few years ago, researchers started to look more closely at the individual variability in response to caffeine. Every study has some more or less random scatter in its results: If the average improvement is 3 percent, some people might actually get 6 percent better, while others don’t improve at all. But not all scatter is random.


A few years ago, evidence started to emerge that some people were consistently more likely to benefit from caffeine than others, and some might actually get slower after taking caffeine, based on their genetic profile. The biggest study to date on this topic has just been published in Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, and the results are striking."


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29509641

Excerpt:

"CONCLUSION:

Our findings show that both 2 and 4 mg/kg caffeine improve 10-km cycling time, but only in those with the AA genotype. Caffeine had no effect in those with the AC genotype and diminished performance at 4 mg/kg in those with the CC genotype.

CYP1A2 genotype should be considered when deciding whether an athlete should use caffeine for enhancing endurance performance." [emphasis added]

See test below for $99.00 USD


https://www.genomicexpress.com/.../caffeine-metabolism


Excerpt:


"Do you drink coffee, tea, sodas or eat sweets such as chocolate? Do you consume "energy" drinks? These drinks and candies contain caffeine. While there may be some benefits associated with moderate caffeine consumption, research has documented that individuals with certain genetic variants are at increased risk of health problems when they consume caffeine.

Specifically, people with a particular variant in a cytochrome P450 gene (CYP1A2) may have an increased risk of developing hypertension, non-fatal myocardial infarction (MI; heart attack) or recurrent pregnancy loss, depending on levels of caffeine consumption. By testing for this variant of the CYP1A2 gene, you will learn whether you are a fast or slow metabolizer of caffeine. Slow metabolizers of caffeine may be able to reduce their risk of future health problems by modifying their intake of caffeine. "


Actually it is quite simple ....... polymorphism - the presence of genetic variation within a population, upon which natural selection can operate


https://synapse.koreamed.org/...&vmode=PUBREADER





Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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This is legit dumb. Caffeine is a brain stimulant. It doesn't make you cycle or run faster.

I've taken tons of pre-workouts over time and I'd never take one before cycling on an ironman.

The increments in the cokes on the course an in gels aren't even remotely close to the limit the body can sustain. Telling people they can't drink coffee in the morning is beyond dumb.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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Nothing new here - I'm surprised you bought the clickbait, Neal.

Caffeine has been on the monitoring list for many years - probably since they removed it from the prohibited list. As the amount from which you gain the most coincide with what you can get through normal food I will say they are very unlikely to change anything.

Also, it's sad that even an outlet like Washington Post gets facts on this stuff wrong. I'm very sure it's not new to the monitoring list as they write, and it also sounds like they are sure to add it to the prohibited list just because it's on the monitoring list, which is untrue (they haven't added it to the 2018 prohibited list):

"WADA’s study will continue through September, at which point the agency will issue a three-month notice that the substance will be added to the Prohibited List the following year."
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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The genotype thing was interesting. 13.7% increase in 10K time for CC. That's on the order of two minutes. Like all day.

That'd be in the ballpark of *5km* for someone doing, say, an hour record attempt. Sweet jesus I hope that I'm not CC and/or that study is flawed given my like 30 years of caffeine consumption.
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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Caffeine has been on the monitoring list since 2009.
https://www.bicycling.com/...to-wadas-banned-list

What is new is that caffeine may only help the performance of some people.
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Hello trail and All,

First of all coffee is big business and we can expect some response from the Coffee Institute Laboratories (if there is such a thing) to water down any impact on coffee sales from this data.

Look at the glass as half full ... not half empty. Why guess? .... get the test $99 .... if you are a CC it will provide you an opportunity for a very inexpensive performance boost. (If you were buying coffee before the test ... when you quit that will pay for for the test very quickly)

The good news for you if you are a CC .... you stand to gain the most of any group .... as the caffeine was diminishing your performance ... ( note "diminished performance at 4 mg/kg in those with the CC genotype.") ..... a nice performance boost by just eliminating caffeine from your diet ..... in addition to other health benefits.

And if WADA moves caffeine from the Monitoring List to the Prohibited List you will be ready.

(my wife gets headaches if she does not get her morning caffeine ..... and I do not think I am going to persuade her otherwise)



Good Luck!

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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Which one are you Neal??

I remember a long time ago some tests on mice with caffeine. As I recall they made them swim until complete exhaustion(maybe death?). The hopped up group on caffeine lasted around 15% longer as I recall. Of course not a human study, but seems like we have been drinking the stuff for a very long time, and for the past 100 years you can add some sodas to the mix, so should have a very good sample to draw conclusions from.

Not sure I buy anyone gets 13+% from it though, that would be crazy if true. I wonder if there are any tell tale signs if you are on one side of the spectrum or the other..
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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I agree. I just ordered a test. Not the one you listed, but another one that gives you the results for about 40 genes (including CYP1A2) for only about double the cost. (fitnessgenes.com)
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Not sure I buy anyone gets 13+% from it though, that would be crazy if true. I wonder if there are any tell tale signs if you are on one side of the spectrum or the other..

I'm skeptical too. However I was a test subject in a beta-alanine test, and beta-alanine absolutely *destroyed* my time trial performance. I knew something was way off about 3 minutes in, so after the test results were published I asked if the blindness could be lifted, and, indeed, my performance went way south after being administered beta-alanine.
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Is being/having CYP1A2 the same as being CC in the other study? I’d also like to ensure caffeine isn’t inhibiting my performance, though I’d probably have figured it out by now if it were.

Dimond Bikes Superfan
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
Is being/having CYP1A2 the same as being CC in the other study? I’d also like to ensure caffeine isn’t inhibiting my performance, though I’d probably have figured it out by now if it were.

From the site I mentioned above: https://fitnessgenes.com/...s-we-analyze/cyp1a2/
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Hello monty and All,

I don't know which one I am.

I just learned about this caffeine information so I will have to get a test .... I like trail's deal ... more up front cost but lots more data .... maybe the additonal data will be useful downstream.

Google says:

"Studies show that people who drink coffee regularly may have an 11% lower risk of developing type 2 diabetes than non-drinkers, thanks to ingredients in coffee that can affect levels of hormones involved in metabolism. ... Coffee may even help you live longer.May 5, 2017"

Now that could be good news for those that have that genetic type .... or maybe it is hokum?

I do not drink regular coffee .... decafe once in a great while .... real coffee makes my hands shake and hair stand on end and I cannot sleep ..... Long ago when I was young .... on long transpacific flights I would drink regular coffee (a lot of it) and feel like a bird flew in my mouth the next day .... so I quit and drank a lot of water instead and felt much better.

I usually eat a small square of Trader Joe's dark chocolate each day .... have to check .... OK a cup of coffee is about 145 mg caffeine and square of chocolate is 8 mg .... so not much .... but after I get tested I will decide about quitting .... maybe the chocolate is a performance boost?

This makes me wonder about other gene/nutrition relationships for health related best practices.

I have seen marketing for gene testing related to nutrition but take it with a grain of salt as I do not know much about it.

I have become comfortable eating the food I like but if there was evidence that changing something would be a better practice I might try it ...... my mom lived to 99 on our current diet (lots of fresh vegetables and fruits, not much processed food, meat, fish, milk, and cereal and a bit of beer and wine .... and some pie ..... and some tiramisu .... and some ice cream ..... and cheese .....) OK, I am getting hungry ....

https://www.pathway.com/fit-products/





Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
monty wrote:

Not sure I buy anyone gets 13+% from it though, that would be crazy if true. I wonder if there are any tell tale signs if you are on one side of the spectrum or the other..


I'm skeptical too. However I was a test subject in a beta-alanine test, and beta-alanine absolutely *destroyed* my time trial performance. I knew something was way off about 3 minutes in, so after the test results were published I asked if the blindness could be lifted, and, indeed, my performance went way south after being administered beta-alanine.

I'm pretty sure that BA tanks my performance as well.

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
monty wrote:

Not sure I buy anyone gets 13+% from it though, that would be crazy if true. I wonder if there are any tell tale signs if you are on one side of the spectrum or the other..


I'm skeptical too. However I was a test subject in a beta-alanine test, and beta-alanine absolutely *destroyed* my time trial performance. I knew something was way off about 3 minutes in, so after the test results were published I asked if the blindness could be lifted, and, indeed, my performance went way south after being administered beta-alanine.

Beta-Alanine is pretty much a worthless ingredient in supplements, it's just a filler, sounds good but does nothing for most people.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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They're going to have to add sports drinks, carbohydrates, and, come to think of it, water to the monitoring list. I've seen numerous studies that appear to indicate those things increase performance in a variety of sports.

------------------------------------------------------------
Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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Reading the acknowledgement in the paper you linked:
"This study was funded by the Canadian Foundation for Dietetic Research, Nutrigenomix Inc., The Coca-Cola Company, and Mitacs."
"A.E-S. is the Founder and holds shares in Nutrigenomix Inc. and N.G. serves on the Scientific Advisory Board of Nutrigenomix Inc."

There might be nothing wrong with their research, but with so much conflict of interest I would look elsewhere for confirmation.
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
I agree. I just ordered a test. Not the one you listed, but another one that gives you the results for about 40 genes (including CYP1A2) for only about double the cost. (fitnessgenes.com)

Did you just get the basic test or the one that comes with a 4/8/12 week plan? I'm leaning towards the former, on the basis that I much prefer understanding the data and concepts and then figuring out my own plan rather than following one that somebody has prescribed.
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:

Beta-Alanine is pretty much a worthless ingredient in supplements, it's just a filler, sounds good but does nothing for most people.

In my case it was much worse than worthless....
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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cartsman wrote:
trail wrote:
I agree. I just ordered a test. Not the one you listed, but another one that gives you the results for about 40 genes (including CYP1A2) for only about double the cost. (fitnessgenes.com)


Did you just get the basic test or the one that comes with a 4/8/12 week plan? I'm leaning towards the former, on the basis that I much prefer understanding the data and concepts and then figuring out my own plan rather than following one that somebody has prescribed.

I got the 4-week. I'm more inclined to roll my own like you, but was curious to see what they come up with as part of the tutorial on understanding (or calling BS) what they're claiming.
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Would be very interested in how useful you find it, if you get a chance to come back here and write about it. Been toying with the idea of either a DNA test and/or gut microbiome analysis for a while. As much for health reasons as for sporting performance. Part of me keeps insisting it's all snake oil, and the knowledge that my wife would certainly think that has been enough to stop me from pulling the trigger so far!
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting - I am CYP1A2 type CC and also an avid fan of caffeine - maybe I should cut it out and see how things go!

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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My gut feeling is that this is a lot like eat for your blood type. There are going to be so many outliers going against the grain of what they say the results should be, that the information in the end really is not that useful. I'm sure there are whole pockets of people that have the bad caffeine gene, yet they have a super long history of them and their ancestors drinking it, and to good effects. I think the body will adapt over time to certain things and make them good, where in other people they could be bad or poison.

It is that way with food, so dont see why it would be different with caffeine. I think the results will be like predicting your heart rate, a lot of people will fall right into the formula 220- your age, but just about as many will not. I do like the direction the testing is going though, just not really there yet. DNA is going to be a great prediction of a lot of things, but things like what one eats or drinks on a daily basis is going to be tough to pin down. Perhaps it will be a combination of a dozen different ones that gets to real accuracy..
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
trail wrote:
monty wrote:

Not sure I buy anyone gets 13+% from it though, that would be crazy if true. I wonder if there are any tell tale signs if you are on one side of the spectrum or the other..


I'm skeptical too. However I was a test subject in a beta-alanine test, and beta-alanine absolutely *destroyed* my time trial performance. I knew something was way off about 3 minutes in, so after the test results were published I asked if the blindness could be lifted, and, indeed, my performance went way south after being administered beta-alanine.


Beta-Alanine is pretty much a worthless ingredient in supplements, it's just a filler, sounds good but does nothing for most people.

Sources?

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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xtrpickels wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
trail wrote:
monty wrote:

Not sure I buy anyone gets 13+% from it though, that would be crazy if true. I wonder if there are any tell tale signs if you are on one side of the spectrum or the other..


I'm skeptical too. However I was a test subject in a beta-alanine test, and beta-alanine absolutely *destroyed* my time trial performance. I knew something was way off about 3 minutes in, so after the test results were published I asked if the blindness could be lifted, and, indeed, my performance went way south after being administered beta-alanine.


Beta-Alanine is pretty much a worthless ingredient in supplements, it's just a filler, sounds good but does nothing for most people.


Sources?



While researching this caffeine issue I ran into this 2017 meta-study of four supplements, one of which was beta-alanine (7 beta-alanine studies included): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC5422435/

It concluded nitrate and beta-alanine did not show significant effects in trained athletes. Caffeine and bicarbonate showed some effects.

Edit: This is for "intense" (<8 minute) performance. Not claiming it's the be-all, end-all study. Just pointing it out since it caught my eye.
Last edited by: trail: Mar 18, 18 14:47
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Re: Caffeine - WADA - Performance - Health Risks - Tests - Polymorphism [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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cartsman wrote:
Would be very interested in how useful you find it, if you get a chance to come back here and write about it. Been toying with the idea of either a DNA test and/or gut microbiome analysis for a while. As much for health reasons as for sporting performance. Part of me keeps insisting it's all snake oil, and the knowledge that my wife would certainly think that has been enough to stop me from pulling the trigger so far!

Yeah, I'll definitely report back with how the process went, what the results look like, and if anything looks like it might be worthwhile.
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